Rebecca Lowe: So, they park themselves up on their bums. And then, you know what they do? They proceed to ask questions, they proceed…
Brendan Hunt: Oh, it's a nightmare.
Lowe: … to ask questions, and it's gone to extra time. And now we're into penalty. So, what happens now? Says Christine. No, no, no. Christine, no. I'll tell you what happens now …
[MUSIC FADES IN]
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: … our friendship ends is what happens now. You need to shush.
Hunt: From Apple News and Meadowlark Media. I'm Brendan Hunt.
Lowe: And I'm Rebecca Lowe. And this is "After the Whistle."
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Hunt: Rebecca, how are you?
Lowe: In Hawaii? How are you?
Hunt: Oh, that's right.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: So, you're very, very well. Mahalo!
Lowe: Aloha!
Hunt: We are now a mere two days away …
Lowe: Yeah. [GASPS]
Hunt: … from the beginning of the tournament, three days away from the teams that you and I care about. And even though there's still awful things coming outta Qatar that make one conflicted, I must admit that as the momentum grows closer, my anticipation and eagerness swells reciprocally.
Lowe: I think it's always a way. I've heard many journalists, many fans saying, you know, this feels a bit flat. It's at the wrong time of the year. It's not in the right place where it should be. We don't like all of the stories. Of course, onboard with all of that. But unfortunately, we're human. And when you get closer to the world's greatest sports moment, you get, you just get taken away into it. And I … you sort of are resisting it, aren't you, with this particular situation but the more the buildup is crossing every screen that I look at, the more I absolutely can't wait.
Hunt: Now, a warning now for listeners, we, or at least I, will be using adult language in this show. So, if you have some non-adults nearby, well, it's time that they grew up …
[LOWE LAUGHS]
[MARACAS MUSIC]
Hunt: … don't you think? Meanwhile, Rebecca will be using cute little British substitutes for curse words, because she grew up inside a teapot with a floating nanny. Let us begin!
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Hunt: So, people who've been listening to our show from the beginning, meaning, since …
Lowe: [EXCLAIMS] Ages ago.
Hunt: The previous half-hour. We have given a pretty thorough, if not exhausted, rundown on our feelings about the U.S. and England. So, let's get to at least some of the other things happening in the other teams. Let's save our predicted winners for last.
Lowe: Okay.
Hunt: But folks, if you're looking for a dark horse, not a team that has won it before, or who we think might pull a surprise. Rebecca, you have?
Lowe: Okay, so I'm just going to qualify that$%not pull a surprise as in win the whole thing but pull a surprise as in go further than everyone thinks. I'm gonna go Serbia. Okay, hear me out. So, they topped Group A when they were qualifying, and that group had Portugal in it. That takes some doing, considering we all know who's in the Portugal squad and team. They're now in Group G with Brazil, Switzerland, and Cameroon. They can definitely get outta that group, I would've thought second to Brazil, but Switzerland and Cameroon for them should be home runs. In terms of stars in that team, Aleksandar Mitrović is their all-time top goal scorer$%50 goals in 76 games for his country, so he is the best the country's ever seen. If you watch the Premier League, you will know all about Mitrović up front for Fulham, he is like a classic number nine, pulls off at the back post heads home the winner, in the 92nd minute. A brilliant attitude, a complete goal machine at most levels of football. So, Aleksandar Mitrović will lead the line, but they've also got the former Southampton star Dušan Tadić, who tends to play in the hole. He plays in that number 10 role, just behind the strikers. He can create something out of nothing. You've got Dušan Vlahović - or Vla-have-ovic or Vla-hoe-vic - or I don't know, I'm gonna learn how to say that name …
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: Vla-hoe-vic? Vla-have-ovic? Either way. He's really good as well. 22 years' old from Juventus. And you've got Milinković-Savić, he's a brilliant player too. Their manager is a Serbian football legend, and he loves attacking football. They have the attackers to go far so, they'll get out the group, second of the group. I think they'll get out the last 16, they'll get to the quarter finals, that's probably when it'll stop but that will be big. So, Serbia are my pick. Brendan, who have you got?
Hunt: I'm gonna go Denmark.
Lowe: Okay.
Hunt: I think Denmark is kind of always gonna be frisky but the Christian Eriksen story, where he had that heart attack in his first game at the Euros last year, and then wonderfully survived, due to the incredible care of the emergency personnel at the stadium, his story sort of obscured the fact - like Denmark made the semis, like Denmark were very good. And now, they have Christian Eriksen, and I don't know that there's gonna be a team in this whole tournament who are as unified as Denmark. They've had consistency, they've had the same coach for a while. So, I think they have a solid chance to make run and for them too, maybe it's only the semis, but that would be pretty damn impressive for a country so small.
Lowe: And they have history in terms of …
Hunt: Yeah.
Lowe: … surprising everyone, was it '92, they won the Euros in 1992 and that was kind of …
Hunt: It was indeed.
Lowe: … the most out of left field winner until Greece [LAUGHS] of 2004.
Hunt: [LAUGHS] Yeah.
Lowe: So it happens, it doesn't happen very often, and it doesn't usually happen at the World Cup, it does tend to happen at a smaller tournament, but it does happen. You know, somebody will be surprised. Okay. What about underperformers, Brendan, which team do you think won't do as well as they should?
Hunt: This is one place where I think we agree with each other. So, we'll get those boring agreements out of the way and then get back to the hot takes. But I just, my spidey-sense is tingling about France.
Lowe: Oh, me too.
Hunt: And I know …
Lowe: Is that 'cause of the injuries?
Hunt: It's not even entirely 'cause of the injuries. It's a little bit because of Mbappé's general sort of simmering unhappiness. And it's also rather unfairly, you know, folks, if you watch this tournament for a while, you find that France has a certain circadian rhythm of collapsing for no reason whatsoever, completely off the pitch. And particularly, the 2010 team, when Patrice Evra led a strike in 2002 after winning, in '98 Zidane got hurt and they should have been just fine. No! Lost to Senegal in the first game …
Lowe: Yep. One, nil.
Hunt: And didn't even make it outta the group stage. And 2006 they made the final, in 2010 they were terrible. So, 2018 they won it again. It just feels like this is when they're supposed to fall apart. And that's not very scientific, but I'm sticking with it.
Lowe: It's your hunch. And also winning back-to-back World Cups - very, very difficult. Performing excellently at back-to-back World Cups - very, very difficult. So, and I do think N'Golo Kanté is a big miss. Pogba …
Hunt: Yeah.
Lowe: … dunno how much of a big miss he really is. But they have a whole host of injuries even since landing in Qatar. So, I'm with you. I think … you always think - as an English woman, I always think France are gonna beat England, they're gonna be better than England. And so, you know, I'm not gonna say I take a lot of joy from the thought of them collapsing …
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: … but a little amount of joy, a little amount of joy I will take from the French collapsing. Okay, who will be fun to watch, do you think?
Hunt: I mean there's a few possibilities here but I'm gonna go with South Korea, for no more reason than they are legitimately always fun to watch, and they have been since before they were good. Like in 1994, for example they were supposed to be punching bags, tomato cans, if you will, but they were down two nothing against Spain, who of course are Spain, and they came back to draw with two goals in the last 5 minutes.
Lowe: In '94 I didn't concentrate on that World Cup for some reason. Oh, that was right. England didn't make it.
Hunt: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That tracks.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: Well, they, I mean I wasn't following particularly either, but I've since learned of like these things that they've done. And in 2002 when they made the semis, then it was like, all bets are off. From now on, everyone has to take South Korea seriously. But, you know, every tournament they are the hardest working team in show business. And you know, of course nowadays they also have Son, who scored at least two goals in the last World Cup, and here he's coming in 30 years' old, wearing a mask. I think he will look forward to being unleashed.
Lowe: Well, just quickly on Son. I know being an Arsenal fan, it's really hard for you to love Son, really, really hard. But I would say out of all the footballers …
Hunt: I know.
Lowe: … I've ever met …
Hunt: I don't love Son. He's fine.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Lowe: No, he's not.
Hunt: Nice guy.
Lowe: No.
Hunt: [INDISCERNIBLE]
Lowe: You're struggling.
Hunt: But love, don't put words in my mouth.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] You're struggling.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: He is the loveliest, I mean, I just love him. We did a game, pitch side at Villa, Villa-Spurs last season, and Sonny came and had scored a hat trick I think, and he come out and spoke to us afterwards. And honestly, he's just - I just can't help but love the guy. I just wanna put him in my pocket. I absolutely love Heung-min Son. Hopefully he'll be, his face will be okay, and he can go and do his bit. For me, I think Uruguay. I just think …
Hunt: Sure.
Lowe: I had to look through their squad, a lot of their defenders, midfielders [SCOFFS] but a bit of Darwin Núñez, who headbutts, a bit of Suárez, who bites …
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: … a bit of Edinson Cavani, who is really old, but is Edinson Cavani. I wanna watch those three. I wanna see Uruguay, who always are fairly strong, I think they're gonna be fun to watch. That's my fun to watch.
Hunt: I wanna see all three of them at some point in games. I'm sure they won't all …
Lowe: No.
Hunt: … start, but like late when they're desperate and it's the three of them …
Lowe: Yeah.
Hunt: … that's gonna be unmissable.
Lowe: And also, Suárez has forever lived in that Messi/Ronaldo … and then Suárez, you know, well certainly 10 years ago it was Messi, Ronaldo and then Suárez. I want, I feel like he's gonna want to - 'cause it'll be his last World Cup too - I feel like he's gonna want to do something to just take that attention away, once and for all, from Messi and Ronaldo.
Hunt: [LAUGHS] Yeah. And give another World Cup memory, primary World Cup memory that doesn't involve him …
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: … biting Giorgio Chiellini. Gimme one breakout player that people might not know about that will be …
Lowe: Okay.
Hunt: … someone who will burst into the international spotlight in the way that only the World Cup can provide.
Lowe: Okay. So, this is hard because I think, does it mean young? Not necessarily. So, I've gone for a player who isn't young, he's 25. He's Japanese. Japan aren't gonna do very well, but I think within their three group games - Kaoru Mitoma, remember the name. He plays for Brighton, he's only played nine games for Brighton, but he scored five goals in nine games for Japan. I dunno where he's been really, 'cause he's 25. But when he's come on, and usually he comes on, he's just started to get a starting berth under Roberto De Zerbi in the Premier League. Before that, under Graham Potter, he was coming on as a substitute, and I tell you - I think I said it on air - he can do a bit, this bloke can do a bit. So, I'm gonna say, whether he's the breakout star, unlikely, but a star that no one's even thought about, I'm gonna go$%Kaoru Mitoma. You?
Hunt: Bigger program, younger player, and some people have heard of him who follow European football closely, but he's not an international star yet and that's Jamal Musiala, of Germany and Bayern Munich. I went to that last England-Germany Nations League game, where Germany got up two nothing and then England roared back, only to vomit an equalizer …
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: … and Musiala was the player of the match. I mean, he was fantastic. And when you were 18 years old and you are starting for Germany, you are probably hot stuff!
Lowe: Yeah.
Hunt: And he is, and he's also one of those players who not only is great when he's out there, but he gets raved about by his coaches and teammates. And he was England-eligible I guess, and he slipped through the cracks …
Lowe: Oh, don't - so many.
Hunt: [LAUGHS] So the laments there I know are considerable. So, I will go with Jamal Musiala. And okay then, who do you have to win the whole megillah. People go to Vegas with the Rebecca Lowe, the Re-Lo, touch of gold, who's winning the whole thing?
Lowe: When I give you this list, it's very difficult, I think to then say they won't win, all right. And this is, by the way, is a small list of where I could have gone with this. You know, where I'm going with this. Jesus, Martinelli, Neymar, Richarlison, Raphinha, Vinicius Jr, Antony, Casemiro, Paquetá, Alisson, Ederson. I mean, that is just a snapshot of Brazil. I love the way …
Hunt: Yeah, it's gonna be great if they can get two goalies in there …
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: …that's gonna be unstoppable.
Lowe: Yeah, well one of them's gonna - to be fair, one of them could actually start as a number six and you know that.
Hunt: [LAUGHS] That's true.
Lowe: Or a fallback and just ping those balls. But I mean, just the fact they have Ederson and Allison to choose from is annoying as hell. So, for me, not since 2002, I went to Rio for the Olympics so, I got a little taster of that country and its love for sport and its love for football more than anything in the world. And I feel 20 years on, the time has come again for Brazil.
Hunt: I, conversely, am going with their archrivals, Argentina, which I guess makes us archrivals, really.
Lowe: Yeah, I like that.
Hunt: Which is a bad way to start the relationship.
Lowe: I'm okay with that.
Hunt: It's where we are. I think that Leonel Messi finally winning the Copa América - which for those who don't know, is the South American Continental Tournament - and he had been pilloried for years now. It's like, oh, you're doing oh so good at Barcelona, but you have not won anything for Argentina; and he finally has won one. And I think that's going to be a real load off for him, and I think he's gonna play free as hell. He's also in great form for PSG right now.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: I think Argentina runs it, and that's what I think. … Moment to really cement his claim to being the best player of all time.
[GAME FEATURE MUSIC]
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Lowe: Hang on I gotta get a stopwatch up for this next feature. One of your other loves in amongst Arsenal and Team USA, Josh Sargent, Jedi …
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: is Holland, right? Or I say Holland because I'm from the nineties, but you have to say the Netherlands now.
Hunt: I still call it Holland. There's not a Dutch person in the world that would be mad if you do. Go ahead, keep calling it Holland.
Lowe: Okay, that's good. Before we go to the Dutch in 60, can you actually, no, let's make that the topic of the first Dutch in 60.
Hunt: Okay.
Lowe: 'Cause I don't wanna hear more than 60 seconds, Brendan. I'll be honest. I've got me squash and I will drink it during the next 60 …
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: … when you tell all the viewers or even the listeners …
Hunt: Okay, great.
Lowe: Why you love the Dutch in 60. In 3, 2, 1 and go, please.
[STOPWATCH TICKS]
Hunt: [SPEAKS RAPIDLY] Okay. So, I used to live in Holland. I lived there for five years, and I wasn't into football at all. And then I really got into football. And I'll tell you people, if you are not into football at all, and you're like, you need like a neutral team, like get into Holland is a really great choice.
[LOWE CHUCKLES]
Hunt: They've been to the World Cup final the most times of people who haven't won. Three times that they lost, heartbreaking, every single time. And the country deserves it. They've been so good for football in every way. They, in fact, the great teams of today in the offense and the defense, if they play stems from the Great Holland teams of the '70s. I'm not gonna get too bogged down on that, but they're also, they wear orange, they wear orange!
In a macho world, they wear orange.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: It's great. They're distinct, they're fun. And the whole Dutch philosophy is to be very offensive and attacking. So, they play very entertaining soccer. And they're always gonna be doing, that's their whole raison d'être. They're like the Showtime Lakers, but without winning so many trophies. And their manager is, pardon my French, is the crustiest old fuck. And like, he used to be insufferable, but now he's so old and, recovering from cancer, that it's like you gotta give it to him. And he was famously inflexible. It was like 4-3-3, 4-3-3, that's what we do. We're the Dutch, but now he's playing with five at the back! Can you believe it? Oh, Louis Van Gaal. [SPEAKS DUTCH]
[STOPWATCH BELL RINGS]
Lowe: Okay. 60, done.
Hunt: Okay, mine went off too. That's fine.
Lowe: I mean, I'm gonna give you Louis Van Gaal because the guy is a crusty old chap [LAUGHS] to use my phrase …
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: But I kind of love him. I love him that he doesn't - you know what? He just doesn't care anymore.
Hunt: He doesn't care anymore.
Lowe: He absolutely doesn't care. So, fair enough.
Hunt: It's great.
Lowe: And they always have good players. I'm gonna give you 60 seconds every episode.
Hunt: Thank you.
Lowe: And that's all you're gonna get, okay?
Hunt: I appreciate that.
Lowe: Because I do have a struggle with the two team, the two-team-pronged approach. Okay.
Hunt: We can get into that some other time. Don't be jealous though. It doesn't become you.
Lowe: It just means that …
Hunt: So, Messi …
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Go on. Okay, yeah. So, Messi.
[MARACAS MUSIC]
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Hunt: So it is of note, dear listeners, that we have lived in the era, for the last 15 years at least, for one of them, even longer of Messi and Ronaldo. They won every single World Player of the Year award for whatever, 12 years straight. They've won each multiple Champions Leagues, Ronaldo with different teams, and this will be for the both of them, their final World Cup, their final chance to win one. And, where that's interesting to me, is because I think in olden times, if you were claiming to be one of the greatest of all time, you had to have won the World Cup, which is why for decades the debate has been Pelé, Maradona, and no one else.
Lowe: Mmm.
Hunt: And I don't know that that's true anymore because now the Champions League exists, and the Champions League is an incredible concentrated competition of all the best players and all the most money in the world playing a very vigorously fought tournament, much more than the barnstorming that Pelé used to do. And different than the European tournaments that Maradona played. So, there's an argument that Messi and Ronaldo have already established themselves as the best two players of all time. But a way to make that argument moot would be for one of them to win the World Cup, and only one of them can do it, if any. So, I'm fascinated by it. I clearly am rooting for Messi in this, as I have stated. What's your two cents there, lady? Sorry, tuppence, what's your tuppence?
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Well, what I love about the whole Messi-Ronaldo situation is just how different they are. I mean, they're polar opposites, Brendan. I mean, Leo Messi …
Hunt: Yes.
Lowe: … is class personified on the field, quiet as a mouse on it, a complete genius with a ball at his feet, but like a little bit dull. I mean, dare I say it, a little bit dull, outside of genius, right? What I love about a human is the maverick side, right?
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: So that's why I love Gazza. This is why Paul Gascoigne, who played for England in the '90s, was probably, is probably the best footballer the country he's ever produced. But he was a maverick. He was naughty. I mean, the stories you hear about him stealing the team bus at training and driving the team around just for a laugh. And I mean, that's just like one of a million stories you could come up with Gazza, right?
Hunt: Now, he balanced that though, with a very famous sentimental moment where he, to make a long story short, wept for England at a time when English athletes just could not show emotions ever. He openly wept when he was gonna miss the final, if they won, which I think papered over the cracks of many sins for a very long time, which allowed him to be as maverick as he was. Ronaldo, as far as we know, has never shown any kind of human emotion in that regard.
Lowe: No, they're different kind of …
Hunt: On the pitch.
mavericks. … mavericks. And I think when you look at Ronaldo, don't get me wrong, I have a major [EXHALES SHARPLY] bee in my bonnet about Ronaldo because in 2006, at the World Cup, where I was convinced by the way that we were gonna win it, shock, always am - Wayne Rooney, as well, was at the peak. People listening, may not remember in 2006, it was England, Portugal on the quarter finals. And Rooney by accident, according to his book, left a foot on Ricardo Carvalho. And the referee …
Hunt: Anywhere in particular on Ricardo Carvalho?
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Possibly groin area, I can't actually remember possibly groin.
Hunt: Oh hmm. That must not have been a clear angle.
Lowe: It was very, very, very, very accidental that, you know, Rooney would never do such a thing.
[HUNT CHUCKLES]
Lowe: And the referee comes over and Ronaldo - and they were teammates at Manchester United, Rooney and Ronaldo were teammates - and Ronaldo started doing that thing that you can't see I'm doing cause it's a podcast, but brandishing the yellow card or the red card, that kind of …
Hunt: The imaginary card.
Lowe: Yeah, doing the imaginary card that, but it's one of those things that happens in football. Players do it, but it's also universally not liked - that you should not be brandishing imaginary cards at the ref. Not only did he brandish imaginary cards, which the referee then pulled out his red card sent Rooney off so, England's hope of winning the World Cup went down the drain. But then, and well done to the match director on the day, the shot of Ronaldo looking at, we're not quite sure who, we think maybe the Portugal bench, winking like he'd done it on purpose, which obviously he had wound Rooney up because Rooney was very wound-up-able and always has been. He did him. He did him! It was genius from Ronaldo. I've rarely felt such rage, not gonna lie, rarely felt such rage against the man. But trying to move on from that, that was 2006, still trying to move on from that. When it comes to Ronaldo for me, we cannot talk about him going into this World Cup without talking about the Piers Morgan interview, and it's incredibly polarizing. We could go on and on about it. For me, this interview is going to affect this World Cup because it's already affecting him with his teammates. You've seen the shot to Bruno Fernandes and the frosty nature between them and their United teammates and other, I think Cancelo as well. There was a shot from Man City, Cancelo, not really wanting to talk to Ronaldo. Ronaldo's gone and done this big Piers Morgan interview in which he's aired all of his grievances about Manchester United saying, I've got no respect for the manager and essentially the club is not what it was and is in a terrible situation. They've disrespected me and it's gone on and on and on. That interview for me is a reflection of the club since Sir Alex Ferguson left. The club is in a mess and was in a mess before Ronaldo even came back. I'm not excusing Ronaldo because what he did, I don't like that interview, but it's gold dust, it's massive and it's gonna affect this World Cup. And I think Ronaldo …
Hunt: And it's in the timing, it's not even in the material of it so much, which, you know, he's got mostly valid points, but like to make …
Lowe: Yeah.
Hunt: … such a big thing about you right before the World Cup is just …[INDISCERNIBLE]
Lowe: But we're not surprised, are we? I mean, this is Cristiano Ronaldo, which is only about Cristiano.
Hunt: No! And you love it, 'cause he's a maverick!
Lowe: Well. [LAUGHS] But you know what?
Hunt: Yeah. Dull Messi over there, just being friends and meeting his fellow players' families, making sure that they got enough food and everything. Getting their massages …
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Yeah, whatever, rescuing dogs. Great, well done.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: No, in this world that we live in without the Ronaldos of this world, life would be dull. It gives us stuff to talk about. It gives us a villain. So, for me, not that I wanna see him lift the World Cup, but his journey is gonna be extra eyeballs because of this interview. Whereas Messi, I mean honestly, he's a legend, but I dunno, like really? [LAUGHS]
Hunt: [LAUGHS] He doesn't … it's not his job to not be dull!
Lowe: I know.
Hunt: He's great! His job is to be great and he's [INDISCERNIBLE] that job.
Lowe: What do you think about the Ronaldo interview? Other than timing?
Hunt: I think it's selfish and preening. And I think he's old and doesn't realize it yet. And the stats are damning for how Manchester United does with and without him. And I think he finally said, well if they're not gonna release me, you know, or transfer me in the way I want them to, I guess I have to start a dumpster fire. And that is what he has done and it's gonna work. But the fact that he has had to sink this low is, I don't know. Is it a legacy tarnisher?
Lowe: Well, is it a legacy tarnisher? That is obviously a whole other debate. And it'll be interesting to see if they get far in the World Cup. What the reaction to that is. I just think that Manchester United have just made such a mess of it by not allowing him to go in the summer when we all literally, every single person on this planet was like, it's time to go. He should never have gone back. It is now time to go, like in any way, wherever you wanna go. I … and he had offers if we're supposed to believe him and United didn't let him go. That was an era from United's point of view. Anyway.
Hunt: Yeah. Well, he'll be gone soon.
Lowe: We can't, we won't go down that road anymore. But it basically, bottom line is Messi will be interesting on the field. Ronaldo will be interesting off. Fair?
Hunt: Very.
Lowe: Okay.
Hunt: Very fair. And I hope Messi wins.
[WHISTLE]
Hunt: Folks, some of you were gonna be going to a World Cup party for the first time and watching soccer in an intensive environment for the first time. And you might not know that there are certain unspoken protocols, certain unspoken rules of engagement, and no one says them to you, they just resent you when you break those rules. So, we're gonna talk to you through ow to behave at a World Cup party. And to start, we will have a real-life example from an absolute nightmare of a situation that happened to Rebecca.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: And if I may set the scene, from last year's European Championships final, which I find to be a nightmare made flesh, dear listeners, Rebecca, of course, massive fan of England, imagine your team finally makes it to, we'll call it the Super Bowl. 'Cause the European Championships, you're like, well that's not the World Cup, it's damn near the World Cup.
Lowe: Mm-hmm.
Hunt: And they make the final, it's at home. It's at Wembley. It is something that's never happened in Rebecca's lifetime. She's sitting in the backyard. Why is she watching outside in the backyard? It's not about Rebecca's choices right now people, don't worry about that.
[LOWE CHUCKLES]
Hunt: And with people who are just filled with passion for England and what should happen?
Lowe: I reckon it was 35 minutes into the first half and I hear the back gate close. And I'm like [STUTTERS] … who the hell is turning up at my house in the middle of the European Championships final. It's Christine and Jared from up the bloody road …
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: … right? Who are great friends, I mean, I love Christine and Jared. We'll do COVID-bubble parties, Jared helped with the internet. Thanks Jared. But we don't need Christine and Jared turning up in the middle of England-Italy, unless they're massive football fans. They're frigging not, okay. In they come$%oh, hi guys. We could hear the commotion - ‘cause there's like 10 of us – and we just thought we'd come and see what it's all about. Oh, that phrase we thought we'd come and see what it's all about! That insinuates, please explain to us what you're watching. I haven't got time for explanation. So, they park themselves up on the bums, get themselves a hot dog. And then you know what they do? They proceed to ask questions …
Hunt: Oh, it’s a nightmare.
Lowe: … they proceed to ask questions. And it's gone to extra time and now we're into penalty. So, what happens now? Says, Christine. No, no, no. Christine,
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: … no. I'll tell you what happens now - our friendship ends, is what happens now. You need to shush. The moral of the story is lock your back gate, all right? If you're having a party, don't let Christine and Jared in. It's a frigging nightmare.
Hunt: So, I mean, literally for the rest of your life when you recall that trauma …
Lowe: Yeah.
Hunt: … Christine and Jared will be central to this lifelong scar. And listeners, you don't wanna be that person. So, here are three handy rules about how to behave at a World Cup party. And there … don't be like, oh, I'll just behave that way at a final. No, no, no, no, no, no.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: Get in practice, start at the beginning. You never know the passion level until you know for sure. So, first things first, don't be late. Don't be late. If you're late, just don't go. If you're gonna be late, don't go. If you do still have to go and you are late, do not say hello. Just slide into the room. Maybe get eye contact with your host and nod and do not speak until you have received some kind of sign that people are speaking now. And it's that kind of party. In short, read the room. In fact, all these rules you're about to hear can be summarized under$%read the room. Christine and Jared didn't read the room.
Lowe: No, there was no room reading. And also, when the whistle goes to mark the beginning of a game, whether it's Team USA for you, England for me, it becomes like a cauldron of fire in your body, right, at the World Cup or the Euros.
Hunt: Yeah.
Lowe: So, if you are late, it's offensive. Right? Yeah.
Hunt: It's bad. Don't do that. Don't do that. All right. So, thing two, now you might be coming into soccer with a few like, oh boy, there's rules I don't understand. And there's funny things to say ‘cause sometimes they fall down, but they barely got touched. And boy VAR is taking a long time.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: Yeah. While the ball’s in play, do not ask about rules.
Lowe: Mmm.
Hunt: And all your jokes you have about soccer, you yes, you very possibly do have anti-soccer material that none of us have heard before. However, you probably don't. So, on both of these things - just don't. If you wanted to ask about rules, the time was before the World Cup. And if you're desperate to ask about rules, then wait until there’s a substitution, there's been a foul, there's been a halftime. Not while the ball is in play.
Lowe: The other thing to say about that is if you've managed to get to adulthood and you don't know the rules of football …
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: … it's offensive to everybody in the room. Right? It's the easy, we're not talking NFL when nobody freaking knows what the hell's going on and they're blowing the whistle every two minutes. It's the easiest …
Hunt: No.
Lowe: … frigging sport …
Hunt: Pretty easy to follow.
Lowe: … world to understand.
Hunt: Yeah.
Lowe: So, you know what? Pick it up! All right, just pick it up.
Hunt: So, to review, read the room, enter and depart discreetly and, for the love of God, no questions and no bits while the ball is in play. These are the main things. Yeah? And by the way, next week we'll have Christine and Jared …
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: … on the show to talk us through England, USA.
[MARACAS MUSIC]
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Hunt: Alright, let's get to our wrappy-uppy here. Rebecca, any last things? We're getting close. We're two days away. I mean, even just these conversations make me even more excited. But any final thoughts before we send people into their weekend to start watching this mighty, mighty event?
Lowe: Well, you know, I have a million thoughts about football, which [SIGHS] you know, will take the rest of the day and …
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: … we only have a short podcast. So, I'm gonna focus my thoughts on really what I would be doing if I was out there in Qatar, which would be working right as a journalist, a reporter, a host. I'd be out there trying to film, trying to do things in this host country. The people who saw the Danish TV reporter forced off air,
Hunt: Insane.
Lowe: … will understand what I'm saying. It was a Danish television reporter standing on the side of a road, trying to do a report live into Danish television and a golf buggy with Qatari officials - is the only way I can describe them, it's the only way the news outlets have been describing them - got off the buggy and essentially put a cloth in front of his camera and told him he couldn't film there. He has accreditation, which he showed them. He is standing on the side of a road - you can film by the way, anywhere on the side of a road. He actually said to them in English, which I love him for, he said, you all invited the world here and now you are telling me I can't film. My concern, Brendan, is that whilst I want every story to be about the football, of course I do. And I want the football to be brilliant and tons of things for us to talk about; I also, whilst … it gets me quite angry because whilst I don't want stories like this, Danish television reports are essentially being censored, I also do want them, and I want them to carry on throughout the tournament because it will allow us to make sure that these things continue to get airtime. But the very fact that they're happening makes me angry so, I'm kind of pulled in two different directions here. My concern is, as we head into the tournament, that these things are going to happen a lot, whether it's journalists or other such situations going on in Qatar that we know have been going on and continue to go on, are gonna come to the surface. And it's good in one way 'cause it's awareness, and another way, it's bad. So, that's kind of my final thought going into this.
Hunt: And it also suggests a reactionary security force, which is not a good thing to mix in with football fans.
[LOWE SIGHS]
Hunt: Well, my two cents here, real quick. All right, so, one thing we lack in the United States, besides major international trophies, is a proper nickname. And I would like to talk about that. England, The Three Lions, Cameroon, the Indomitable Lions, Scotland, the Tartan Army, even Canada, the Maple Leafs; Mexico, El Tri. We don't really have one. Here's my pitch and here's what we're gonna do in this podcast, even if it doesn't go any further than this.
Lowe: Okay.
Hunt: With your permission. So, we are the only country where you say national football team and people first have to go like, oh well which one are you talking about? The women or the men?
Lowe: Yeah.
Hunt: So, let's shorten that up. Now, let's just call, we don't wanna call 'em the men, 'cause that's like macho and weird. We don't call 'em the boys, 'cause that's infantilizing. And also, there's already a hilarious TV show called "The Boys," that is really great.
[LOWE CHUCKLES]
Hunt: And it's comic first. So, my two cents, we call 'em$%The Guys. Now, full disclosure, I've had like a hashtag about this for a while …
Lowe: Okay.
Hunt: So, like not really using my platform for potentially evil, but my heart is in this. They're The Guys.
You know, you wanna hang out with the guys. These are the guys!
Lowe: Oh, I love it.
Hunt: They our guys. Our guys!
Lowe: I love it, Brendan. I love it. You know, I love it. It's so American. You're so on brand. I mean, honestly, if you speak to anyone in England, they know that that's where “the guys” comes from. It's like, oh my God, you guys like, it's so you guys, that's how Americans …
Hunt: Mmm. Hold on. Now, it sounds bad. [LAUGHS]
Lowe: … talk about themselves. You g-- Yeah, the guy, just the guys, just hanging out, the guys, all … Yeah, I'm with you on that. I mean, it doesn't have a lot of gravitas. I'm gonna, I'm not sure it's got …
Hunt: No. Should it?
Lowe: … a huge amount of gravitas. Well, no, you know, they've got the three lions and you've got The Guys. But I'm okay with it and I'm gonna go with it. And I think moving on, forward, from this moment on, it's England against The Guys.
[MUSIC FADES IN]
Hunt: Folks, if you are loving the show or even if you're just like, you know, morbidly curious, subscribe on Apple Podcasts and be sure to rate and review us, it really helps other people find the show.
Lowe: And if you want round the clock, World Cup News, live scores, standings, follow along on the Apple News app in My Sports where available.
Hunt: We will be back with more World Cup coverage right here in your podcast feed on Monday after the U.S. Wales game in the first match of the group stage. Can't wait!
Lowe: Oh, God. Also, after England have played Iran, which I'm already nervous about. Okay, I'll speak to you then.
Hunt: Well, you should be.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]