WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.000 [INTRIGUING MUSIC] 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:02.000 Hey there. It's Shumita here. Every so often, we're gonna recommend a show that we think is worth you checking out. "Decoder Ring" from "Slate" is a podcast about cracking cultural mysteries. In each episode, host Willa Paskin explores a question, object or habit, reveals its untold history, and tries to figure out what it means and why it matters. Check out "Decoder Ring" on Apple Podcasts. 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:03.000 [MUSIC FADES OUT] 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:04.000 During this big week of Thanksgiving travel, we're bringing you an episode from our archives. We ran this over the summer when air travel was really wild, but a lot of it still applies today, and maybe you'll find the tips useful for your next flight. Enjoy. 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:05.000 [MUSIC FADES IN] 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:06.000 This is "In Conversation" from Apple News. I'm Shumita Basu. Today, why air travel is such a mess right now and what we can do to fix it. 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:07.000 [MUSIC FADES OUT] 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:08.000 [EASYGOING MUSIC] 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:09.000 This was supposed to be the summer of revenge travel, of finally getting back to planes and passports and vacations and family visits. But when we asked listeners to tell us your summer travel nightmare stories, boy, did you deliver. 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:10.000 Hello, my name is Bryan and I'm from South Carolina. 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:11.000 Hi, my name is Joanna and I'm from California. 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:12.000 My name is Ben Shaw, and I am from Syracuse, New York. 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:13.000 My name is Michael. 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:14.000 My name's Jennifer. 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:15.000 My name is Claude. 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:16.000 My name is Jordan O’Neal, and this is my flight nightmare story. 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:17.000 The check-in line was from the far-left side of the building, all the way to the main entrance of the arrival gates. 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:18.000 My luggage got lost somewhere between Los Angeles and Athens. 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.000 My flight was on time. We were boarding. Then we had to un-board because the co-pilot had been notified that he had been exposed to COVID. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:20.000 We tried to rebook, but nothing was available until a week later. 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:21.000 It was total chaos! 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:22.000 My family's seats were dispersed throughout the entire airplane. 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:23.000 We were supposed to depart the airport at 8:30 in the morning. We did not leave until 11:15 at night. 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:24.000 She said, "So, I'm going to be totally honest with you. We actually don't have a pilot." 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:25.000 [MUSIC FADES OUT] 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:26.000 [CONTEMPLATIVE MUSIC] 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:27.000 So, how did we get here? How did it get so bad? And what can we do about it? Both as individual passengers and the industry as a whole. To get some answers, I turned to Scott McCartney. He's a journalist and private pilot who's been writing about the airline industry for more than two decades. 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:28.000 I used to joke that if airlines ever figured out how to run their business, I'd be out of a job. But I didn't think that was gonna happen in my lifetime. [LAUGHS] And I think that's pretty clear at this point. 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:29.000 Scott used to write "The Middle Seat" column for "The Wall Street Journal." And even though he's retired from the column, he's still super plugged into this industry. 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:30.000 We've never seen a situation where this has not only been industry-wide in the U.S., it's worldwide. And these problems are happening all over the world, at the same time, to all airlines, and that's what's unprecedented. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:31.000 I started by asking him: When was the Golden Age of air travel? When did we peak? 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:32.000 [MUSIC FADES OUT] 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.000 We think of the golden age back in the '50s and '60s when air travel was still regulated and airlines competed on service. And so, you had piano bars on 747s, and you had full meal service and good food, and people dressed up, and there was ample leg room, and all those kinds of things. And what we forget is that in those days, travel was fairly unreliable. The planes were not mechanically as reliable as they are now. There were a lot more accidents. It was more dangerous. And so, the glamorous pictures of, "Oh, air travel used to be so great." Well, it wasn't so great then. So, I don't think there has ever been a golden age of travel. 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:34.000 [LAUGHS] I was just gonna say, unfortunately, you answered my question by saying there probably hasn't been a true golden age, the way that people think of one. 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:35.000 I think that's right. Sometimes I think these customer service things in the airline business, there's a pendulum aspect to it. And sometimes we swing too far one way. And it's a very hard thing to do, to move people and their bags and get them to where they want to go. 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:36.000 You know, one thing that you said just now about how travel in the '50s and '60s was still regulated, what do you mean by that? And how's that different from today? 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:37.000 Yeah, so, it used to be that there was a civil aeronautics board, and airlines had to apply for a route authority. You couldn't just fly anywhere you wanted. You had to have permission from the government to fly certain routes, and the government set the fares. And basically, airlines came in and said, "Well, this is what it costs to fly from Albany, New York to Los Angeles, California. And so, set the fair at $279 and we'll make money at that." And that was it. There was no price competition. That's what the fare was to fly. Now, that flight from Albany to Los Angeles may have stopped in Chicago and Denver and Albuquerque and Phoenix before you got to Los Angeles. That's because that's the route that the airline was assigned by the government. So, it was all regulated. 1979 came along. Jimmy Carter was president. Economists, led by Alfred Kahn, had convinced the government that: Why don't we have price competition? Why don't we let airlines fly anywhere they want? And by the way, if they meet certain safety standards, we'll let new airlines be created. So, People Express and other airlines came into play. Eventually, airlines settled on: Hey, you know what? Hopscotching across the country, not such a good idea. Let's run everybody through Chicago or through Dallas or Atlanta or… It was the creation of the hub and spoke system. Yeah. And that was much more efficient. And you know what, if People Express was offering a $99 fare, American was gonna offer it, too. And how is American gonna get you to choose their service? Well, they created a frequent flyer program. And so, people got locked into frequent flyer mileage deals that created loyalty for the airline for, essentially, what is a commodity product. All you want to do is get from here to there. And so, deregulation completely changed the industry. But also, the days of airlines being consistently profitable were long gone. And it has always been a financially challenged industry. 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:38.000 So, at what point did airlines start to become really stingy about things like leg room and in-flight meals? It feels like it's sort of a race to the bottom in terms of how little you can be offered for a seat on a plane. When did that happen? 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:39.000 So, 2001, you had the terrorist attacks. There were several years of recovery. And just as airlines were starting to recover, along came the financial crisis in 2008, 2009. We saw bankruptcies and mergers. And as they start emerging from that, okay, how can we, in this new world, how can we make money? That was really the push to say, "Okay, we can't afford to serve meals on, you know, four-hour domestic flights, or even six-hour domestic flights." And, you know, the airline said, "Hey, wait a minute. If we could put two more rows of seats in the airplane, that's 12 seats on a single-aisle airplane that we could sell. And if you can sell 12 more tickets, then maybe that flight that lost money, now it's gonna make money because we've got more people on the airplane. And so, it was that economics that drove it. And it was also the creation of thin seats, and that created more space. And the question was, does the passenger get more space, more head room, as it were, more leg room? Or does the airline take that space? And the answer was: The airline's gonna that space. Right. 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.000 We all know the answer to that. Yup. Mm-hmm. 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:41.000 [LAUGHS] And there were all kinds of fallout things from that. Overhead baggage was the most obvious one. Okay, that 737 was designed for 145 people, then it went to 160. Well, now we got 180 people on that 737-800. But we only have room for bags for 140 people. So, there's 40 passengers on the plane that have no room in the overhead bin. And so, along came basic economy fares with no overhead bag privileges, or some airlines, like Spirit, charge for overhead bags. 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:42.000 That brings us up to today, where, on top of losing the little dignities, like enough space for your legs, travelers are now dealing with major flight delays, cancellations, and epic amounts of lost luggage. 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:43.000 Earlier this month, Delta flew a plane from London to Detroit with no passengers, just 1,000 pieces of lost luggage that needed to be reunited with travelers. London Heathrow Airport, which is one of Europe's biggest international hubs, is putting a cap on the number of departing passengers for the rest of the summer. They've told the airlines, "Stop selling tickets. We just don't have enough airport staff right now." 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:44.000 Not enough pilots, not enough flight attendants. 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.000 The big mistake that the industry made was anticipating that they would have more workers than they have. Thinking, "Hey, we're gonna have X number of pilots for this summer." They don't. "We're gonna have X number of baggage handlers for this summer." We don't. "Heathrow Airport in London is gonna be able to handle X number of passengers." It can't. And so, we've seen two types of adjustments by airlines. There's the proactive cancellation. JetBlue says, "Whoa, we're in big trouble here. We're gonna take out 10% of our schedule for summer. That's hugely disruptive to people who have already bought tickets on those flights and now have to find new flights. And then you get to the week of operation, the day of operation, and airlines have been running with lower levels of reserve crews. So, an airline has the scheduled crews, but then you also have pilots and flight attendants held back on what's called reserve, and you can manage those levels. Are we gonna keep 8% of our crews on reserve? Maybe it's 10%. Maybe it should be 12%. That's a choice that each airline makes, and they chose wrong. No doubt about it. Southwest Airlines, the other day, said they have hired 10,000 new workers this year. Southwest operates with 60,000 workers. It's one-sixth of their workforce has been hired since January. That's an extraordinary turnover. But a lot of those people, this is their first summer. They're inexperienced, and that becomes an issue. Delta Airlines, with its earnings, pointed out that it had 10% of its pilot workforce in training. You know, if you have 10% of your pilot workforce at the schoolhouse in training, they're not serving customers. That's an unexpected problem that airlines have not managed well. 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.000 I think, you know, a big criticism of the airline industry right now is: How could they have all been so unprepared, despite receiving support during the pandemic? I mean, the industry received a $50 billion bailout from the government during the pandemic. What did that money get used for? Help us understand, you know, what happens when an industry is bailed out on that kind of level? 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:47.000 So, let's look year-by-year at the pandemic. So, the pandemic starts in 2020 and travel goes to, you know, zero. But we want airlines flying because they're moving cargo, because they're moving healthcare workers. You know, the goal of that money was: Let's keep the industry in intact so that we're in good shape when we get out of it. And what that money did was keep airlines from furloughing people, from having mass layoffs. We didn't see mass layoffs here. What we did see, and this is the questionable action airlines took, what we did see were early retirement programs. Airlines offered workers early retirement. Far more took 'em up on the offer than they ever anticipated. You can say, "Well, they should have known better." And they probably should. But a lot of people left. And then there's been this phenomenon of people not coming back. Airlines allowed them to take unpaid leaves. The anticipation was those people would come back. A lot of 'em didn't. It used to be at Southwest Airlines, a job was highly coveted. Right? There were 50 people applying for every job, whatever it would be. Southwest says they've offered jobs to people, they've been accepted, and the new hire still never shows up and ghosts them. And they've never seen that kind of thing before where people just don't want the job. 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:48.000 [INTRIGUING MUSIC] 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.000 People don't want these jobs because the conditions aren't great. If you're a baggage handler, that means that you're hauling around luggage in extreme heat and bitter cold. Lots of airport and airline jobs require odd hours: overnights, weekends and very busy holidays. We heard from one of our listeners who works in the industry. 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:50.000 As a flight attendant for many years, for a major airline, I'm based in DFW. 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:51.000 DFW, that's Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. This listener told us the general flying public probably doesn't think about what it's like for the crew when a flight gets delayed or cancelled. 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:52.000 I have shown up to the airport where flights have canceled, literally, once I sign in for my flight. In fact, I have had rolling delays as well, for as long as up to six to seven hours, where I'm sitting in the airport. 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:53.000 And even though you're technically "at work," if you're flight's delayed, you're not on the clock. 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:54.000 We're not getting paid. We just sit and wait until they update what the status of a flight is. And trust me, it isn't fun on our end. We never enjoy it. 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:55.000 Scott told us there are so many things that the average traveler misunderstands about this industry. 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:56.000 [MUSIC FADES OUT] 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:57.000 What do travelers not understand? In some ways, everything. But, you know, what travelers don't understand is how problems can cascade. You know, a couple gate agents calling sick, and now flights get delayed leaving Miami. And those delays sort of build into the system all day long. That plane is late arriving in Houston. The crew that was on that plane is supposed to go to Denver. Now that fight's late. Now the international departure from Denver to London gets affected because connecting passengers aren't arriving, or their bags don't make the flight, or, you know, it just… One little thing can cascade into a big problem. 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:58.000 Right. It's just an incredible domino effect, it sounds like, at every stage. 00:00:58.000 --> 00:00:59.000 An incredible domino effect. It's one of the reasons why, you know, among the tips for travelers is fly early in the day because airline operations degrade over time during the day. Your odds of success are better in the morning. 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:00.000 [EASYGOING MUSIC] 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:01.000 That's useful, right? Fly early in the day to avoid the avalanche of delays. See, Scott has spent so much time traveling, I knew that he had to have lots of tips and tricks for how to travel smarter. So, I decided to hit him with a speed round, something that I called "Best and Worst." 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:02.000 I'm just gonna run down the list. Okay? 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:03.000 Okay. 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:04.000 Best airline, worst airline? 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:05.000 Best airline is the one that gets me where I'm going when I want to go. Worst airline, Spirit's had a really tough summer this year, so has JetBlue. 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:06.000 Best airport and worst airport? 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:07.000 Best airport in the world is Changi in Singapore. Worst airport, Newark has been really terrible. 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:08.000 Best advice for parents traveling with babies? 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:09.000 Buy a seat. Do not hold your baby. 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:10.000 Single best piece of advice for longer flights. 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:11.000 Hydrate. 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:12.000 Hydrate. 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:13.000 Best kept secret of flight attendants? 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:14.000 They are all checking you out when you board. 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:15.000 [LAUGHS] What does that mean? 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:16.000 When they greet you at the door, they are looking for the troublemakers. 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:17.000 [MUSIC FADES OUT] 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:18.000 Here's another advice question I had for Scott: What's the best way to negotiate with an airline that's trying to bump you off an overbooked flight? I've been reading some wild stories this summer about people getting offered a lot of money to agree to get bumped. I'm talking $10,000 to give up your seat. So, I asked Scott: What tips should people know about oversold flights? 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:19.000 Well, if you really want a go at that, fly Delta. 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:20.000 Mm. Why's that? 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:21.000 It's a really interesting customer servicing. Delta has made it a policy that it doesn't wanna bump anybody involuntarily. And in fact, in January to March of this year, Delta had zero involuntary bumping-denied boardings in the government statistics. Thirty-four and a half million plane passengers, zero bumping. Now, 24,000 people got voluntarily bumped. And so, Delta has said, "We are gonna do everything we can to get people to voluntarily give up seats, rather than involuntarily take their seats away." And that's where you end up with the occasional, very occasional, $10,000 thing. 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:22.000 Wow, that's so interesting. Is that worth it for them? For Delta to pay $10,000? 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:23.000 Delta, more than any other airline, certainly pre-pandemic, has tried to make reliability a marketing advantage. 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:24.000 Getting handed $10,000 to make a problem go away might sound nice for individual customers, but it clearly doesn't address the bigger, industry-wide issues. Now that's where the federal government is supposed to step in, to enforce certain consumer protections. But Scott says Congress, the Department of Transportation, no one is doing enough. 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:25.000 There's been a real dereliction of duty here. During the Trump administration, Elaine Chao did absolutely nothing to protect airline passengers. 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:26.000 And she was transportation secretary at the time, right? 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:27.000 She was transportation secretary. It became particularly egregious with the whole refund issue in the pandemic. There were billions of dollars in refunds owed to travelers that airlines did not pay and simply ignored U.S. regulations. But then you came to Pete Buttigieg and the Biden administration, and the focus until this summer, the focus was completely on infrastructure, transportation. I have a friend who's a consumer advocate in the airline business who laughs that Pete Buttigieg never said the word "passenger" for the first year plus of his administration as transportation secretary. Now, he's gotten more attentive to it recently. 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:28.000 [CONTEMPLATIVE MUSIC] 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:29.000 Earlier this month, Secretary Buttigieg spoke on "Fox News" about some steps that the Department of Transportation is taking to improve the airline industry. 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:30.000 [START FOX NEWS ARCHIVAL CLIP] 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:31.000 We'll collaborate with airlines when they're ready to take steps that are positive and proactive, whether that's improvements in pay that are helping with hiring or flexibility in customer service. We're also going to enforce passenger and consumer rights. 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:32.000 [END FOX NEWS ARCHIVAL CLIP] 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:33.000 The DOT says it's gonna start holding airlines accountable for things like family seating. The way that it works now is people traveling with young kids often have to pay extra fees or rely on kind strangers to get several seats in a row. Scott says he can't believe this is still a problem. 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:34.000 This is just an issue that the airline industry should just solve. It's mind boggling that they'll not be proactive about this. 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:35.000 And according to Scott, it doesn't have to be a complicated solution. 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:36.000 Ryan Air has a simple thing in the booking path: You have to put in the age of the passenger. Well, you put in "three years old" for the passenger, and the booking system automatically knows: Hey, you're a family traveling together. You can have seats together for free. It's a simple thing. 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:37.000 The department also recently released its first-ever Bill of Rights for passengers with disabilities, which says people are entitled to things like seating accommodations and assistance. 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:38.000 And Buttigieg has been vocal about cracking down on airlines for not refunding passengers for cancelled flights. The DOT has launched a number of investigations into airlines, and they've said that fines are coming. But Scott says, still, it's not enough. 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:39.000 [MUSIC FADES OUT] 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:40.000 I think he's a day late and a dollar short on that issue. I think if you're going to address that issue, the early days of the pandemic was when you had the huge cancellations. The fines need to be made. We're more than two years into it. It's time. What are we waiting for? Get people their money back. The fundamental problem with cancellations and refunds is that even if you get the refund, you're disadvantaged if you're the traveler. The way to address that issue, I think, is to force airlines to be the ones to buy the ticket on another carrier, if available. So, American cancels a flight. Oh, United's got flights to Chicago. American should book me on. That's not required. It used to be when the airline industry was regulated. But it's not required today. And if it were, I think the net effect would be Spirit, JetBlue, Delta, Southwest, anybody, would work a lot harder to avoid that cancellation if it was gonna be costly to re-book people on other airlines. If there was a greater penalty for canceling flights, then I think airlines would be more careful about their scheduling. 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:41.000 Yeah. What else can the DOT be doing to alleviate some of the big problems of the summer? 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:42.000 I think that there really needs to be an examination of the contract of carriage, the rules, the fine print on the ticket that you buy, which is so advantaged for the airline and against the traveler. And we need to bring some balance to that. There needs to be some better protections built into the ticket for the passenger so that when things go wrong, you have better rights. But more than that, more incentive for airlines to make sure that things don't go wrong, bigger penalties for airlines for messing up. 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:43.000 You mentioned earlier how it seems like the pendulum sort of swings at times, in terms of the air travel experience. It gets really bad, and it gets better, and it swings back and forth. It feels like we're in the probably pretty bad swing of the pendulum. Is there anything that airlines are working toward in terms of improving passenger experience, passenger comfort, that we can look forward to as maybe the swinging of the pendulum the other direction? 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:44.000 I think so. I think airlines will get better at staffing issues. I think the pilot shortage will force airlines to use larger airplanes more often. And that's a good thing for travelers. I think a lot of people find larger airplanes more comfortable. I think there is more competition. I hope there's more competition in terms of reliability and that Delta and others will drive that. And so, we'll come out of this with more attention being paid to dependability in air travel. And I think that's a cause for some hope. 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:45.000 [MUSIC FADES IN] 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:46.000 Scott, thank you so much for your time. It was nice to talk with you. 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:47.000 Great to be with you. 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:48.000 You can read Scott's former column for "The Wall Street Journal," "The Middle Seat," on Apple News. And you can also find the "Journal's" new column on all things travel called "Carry On." We'll include a link to all of that on our show notes page. 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:49.000 [MUSIC FADES OUT]