Brendan Hunt: Let's look at who we think might win this thing just very quickly. It would seem to me… Is it anyone besides these four who you think are the favorites? France, Portugal, Spain, Brazil.
Rebecca Lowe: Um…
Hunt: Can you think of anyone?
Lowe: [LAUGHS] I mean, I think it's kind of quite mean. I think England are definitely part of the conversation.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
[MUSIC FADES IN]
[WHISTLE BLOWS]
Hunt: From Apple News and Meadowlark Media, I'm Brendan Hunt.
Lowe: And I'm Rebecca Lowe. And this is "After the Whistle." Suffice to say, there were a lot of matches this past weekend. We take you through the best of the best today and what it means for the litany of teams still left fighting for their spot to round of 16.
Hunt: Tensions between U.S. and Iran unsurprisingly flaring up, causing Tyler Adams and Gregg Berhalter to answer a few pointed questions.
Lowe: And we take a look ahead at the upcoming U.S. and England matches and give you, our lovely listeners, our picks for the best upcoming games to keep your eyes on.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Brendan, what a weekend. How the devil are you? By the way, before you answer that, I just wanted to say A, I love the World Cup. B, I love the World Cup. And C, imagine if you're one of those people, Brendan, that can watch every game. We have children. We have other things in our lives. But there are people out there, Brendan… There literally are people out there who sit and watch four games a day back-to-back with like, cups of tea coming out of their ears. I mean, imagine that. Because every time I get to see a little bit of the games, I'm loving it so much. I think wow, imagine being one of those people.
Hunt: And we are at the halfway point of the tournament, the exact halfway tournament according to John Strong anyway, and I'm gonna take his word for it. We are 32 games into our 64-game tournament, and we are now… How would you say it? What's the phrase? We are precariously… We are at that point where things…
Lowe: Pivotal moments!
Hunt: We are at pivotal moment.
Lowe: Correct.
Hunt: Because now, we have only three teams who have advanced. Rebecca, they are?
Lowe: France, Brazil, Portugal.
Hunt: Only two teams that are out. Rebecca, they are?
Lowe: Canada. Canada? I think I mixed up Canada and Qatar together and made Canada. Canada and Qatar….[LAUGHS] Canada and Qatar together. Yup. Out.
Hunt: Which means we have a total of…?
Lowe: Twenty-seven left over who have a chance at making the last 16. So, it is still, despite being very pivotal and only halfway through, very much up for grabs, my friend.
Hunt: Very much so. And the fact that only two teams have been eliminated so far… It feels like it's usually more than that. I know in 2018, it was seven who had been eliminated by now. And so, it's a juicy feast that 27 teams are still on board.
So, with so much going on, what we think we're gonna do today for you guys is do what them English folks call a bit of a whip-round and just kind of zip through a whole bunch of little things here and there with a little time to spend on the USA and England prep and get you updated on some stuff you missed over the weekend. That cool with you, Rebecca?
Lowe: Yeah, drop in around the grounds.
Hunt: Around the grounds?
Lowe: Yeah, that's what I like to say on a Saturday on "NBC." Let's just drop in around those grounds. So, we, essentially, are dropping in around the grounds of the games that interested us over the Thanksgiving weekend, of which there were a number. Where would you like to start?
Hunt: I enjoyed Argentina-Mexico very much. It is the only game I've been able to watch so far actually at a pub, which I enjoyed enormously, by which I mean the experience of being in the pub, which was overrun with Mexico fans far more than Argentina fans. Now, the game itself was a bit of a drudge for the first 45 minutes, but the second half, there was no more caginess, people were going for it, and of course, Lionel Messi finally got his goal. You know, I've predicted Argentina to win. I'm definitely Messi sympathetic, Mes-sympathetic? Lionel Mes-sympathetic. Yeah, you give me that? Thank you.
Lowe: A little. Only a little. [LAUGHS]
Hunt: The judges will allow it. The judges will allow it. So, his goal just felt like such a cathartic moment 'cause like, it was precarious. Even a draw for them would've been hugely troubling, but it really felt like Argentina kind of got their mojo back there. But they're not outta the woods yet. And we will see what happened in their final game against Poland. Oh. But we'll get to that.
Lowe: Couple of things on Messi, which I thought were interesting. Very nicely planned, the kind of leak after that game, that Messi is probably gonna come to Inter Miami in Major League Soccer after the end of the European season. Rumors are swirling. It did begin with a report after that game in "The Sunday Times," but now Messi's agent has refuted that report apparently to "CNN." But everyone is abuzz that next summer, he's gonna sign, and by the way, no smoke without fire. He is coming to Inter Miami of Major League Soccer. So, that was nicely timed, if true. But the other thing. I don't know if you've seen it, Brendan, but Sam Matterface, who's one of the English broadcasters, he has a podcast, and he's one of the main broadcasters over in England as a commentator, has spoken a lot about the fact that the Argentina team are not staying at a five-star hotel. Have you heard about this? They're not staying at plush surroundings. They are staying, right, no joke, at the University of Qatar dormitories. And not only are they staying in the dormitories, they are sharing rooms except for Messi. Messi gets his own six-by-six. Everybody else is sharing rooms. Now, if the University of Qatar dormitories are anything like the University of East Anglia dormitories circa 1999 to 2002, what on Earth is going on? Give Messi a five-star hotel. He must literally have walked in on day one and been like, is this a joke? So, yeah, they're basically…
Hunt: Well, this would not have happened without his approval. I mean, this is "Rocky IV," you know? This is them eschewing all the perks and just, you know, running in the snow up the mountain.
Lowe: It must be, right?
Hunt: Obviously, they're not in the snow in Qatar, but still.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] But it must be that. It must be. Although, I think it's maybe having a negative impact. I just would not be happy if I was Messi, maybe, or any international footballer if I was staying in a halls of residence. No thanks.
Hunt: Well, we'll see where it works. To which ground would you next like to go 'round, Rebecca?
Lowe: Can we talk South Korea-Ghana?
Hunt: What a game.
Lowe: What a game, 2-3, Ghana winning by three goals to two. Jordan Ayew doesn't get all the headlines at Palace. Did I bring Palace into this again? I did. I'm sorry. He's a Palace legend, but he doesn't get a lot of the headline because he doesn't… He's not prolific goal scorer. He's not always played as a striker. Sometimes he's played a little bit further back. But he's a Palace legend a lot of the time for his work rate. But in this game, the service he provided for that 1-nil goal to Ghana with that really clever free kick off the training ground, clearly, and then the cross as well that led to 2-nil… Ayew's on fire. Him alongside his brother André as well. André used to be the player that more people knew. And then Jordan came up, and now Jordan is definitely the better player. The South Korea equalizer, the scenes were amazing. But also, the decision at the end I wanted to talk to you about because it goes out for a corner, doesn't it, to South Korea? They're 3-2 down into the, God knows, 742nd minute of added time, and Anthony Taylor, the Premier League referee, is the referee. Ball goes out for a corner, and he blows a whistle for full-time. Now, there is this unwritten rule where referees have been known to can play until the end of that particular attacking play. And of course, if you're South Korea, you go mad, which they did. Their manager got a red card. He got sent off. I get that. But I'm also OK with it because if they'd gone and scored, then Ghana would've gone crazy. And if that had been past the amount of allotted time played, it's past the amount of allotted time played. Blow the whistle. It's fine with me. I do remember about 25 years ago, I was at a Palace game. Palace again? Yeah, it'll be Palace again. And David Hopkin, I think it was, Palace play in the midfield, shot the ball from about 25 yards. Right? No joke, Brendan, the referee blew the whistle when the ball was in the air between foot and goal. And it went in back of the goal, but he didn't allow the goal because he'd blown the whistle when the ball was in the air. Now that's ridiculous. OK? That's silly. But going out for a corner? I'm sorry. It's the end of the game.
Hunt: If I recall correctly, Clive Thomas did that as well in a World Cup game between Brazil and Sweden in 1978. And it was even worse because for that game, [LAUGHS] we were past time, and there was a corner for Brazil. The corner is kicked. Clive Thomas blows the whistle, and then Brazil scores. But Clive Thomas tells Brazil no goal because he had already blown the whistle.
Lowe: That's silly. What do you think? What do you think?
Hunt: I mean, for heaven's sake, we're doing these long extra times. Let the corner happen. It's the World Cup. Give them their final go. I don't think Ghana would've had that much to be upset about if the corner was taken because there is protocol. I mean, you'd hope they'd hurry up about it, but South Korea tends to do that. So, I think it was rather joyless of Mr. Taylor. But oh well, advantage Ghana. Thrilling game. I really like Mohammed Kudus, who plays for Ajax, for whom I have a soft spot, and glad to see him get his. To which ground shall we next go 'round, fair Rebecca?
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Let's hop to Belgium-Morocco please. Thoughts?
Hunt: Oof. Boy. So, Kevin De Bruyne… Correct pronunciation, De Bruyne. Kevin De Bruyne comes out the other day and says… He's asked if Belgium has a chance, and he says, "No, no, we have no chance." And if he's Belgian, he's half Dutch, and we're showing some Dutch brusqueness and honesty here. "No, we have no chance. We are too old." Well, that must have been a real help for morale 'cause then next thing you know, they've lost not 1-0 but 2-0 nothing to Morocco. Aye-yai-yai-yai-yai. Your thoughts?
Lowe: So, my thoughts are that Roberto Martínez came in in 2016. OK? So, he's had the 2018 World Cup, and they came third. They beat England in that third-place playoff, and they came third. It was the best ever World Cup finish. Well done. Great. Now, where are we gonna go? Well, I'll tell you where we went. Euro 2020, lost in the quarterfinals against Italy. Yes, Italy went on to win it, but they weren't brilliant. And now, when you look through the names, Brendan, and I know people know this, but if for anyone who is unaware of how good this generation of Belgium players is, or should I say was, let me just throw you out some names. Right? Eden Hazard, Alderweireld and Vertonghen used to be the center half partnership for Spurs, but now, like you say, they just passed it. Kevin De Bruyne. Tielemans is still really good. De Bruyne is peaking. Right now, he's at his peak. Onana, who plays for Everton, excellent. Trossard, who plays for Brighton, has been their player the season so far. Lukaku can't find his fitness, but he's still Lukaku. This is a golden generation of which English people know a lot about. We had our own golden generation that was wasted 15 or so years ago. This is a golden generation, and I am a huge Roberto Martínez fan. I really am. I promise you will never find a nicer human in your life than Roberto Martínez. But the question has to be asked, has he wasted a golden generation of talent? Belgium should have done more than what they've done.
Hunt: I mean, but should they have? I mean…
Lowe: With that talent?
Hunt: As you say, third place in the World Cup is the best they've ever achieved, like, are they really…?
Lowe: That's a World-Cup-winning, European-Championship-winning squad. Hundred percent.
Hunt: And it looks like they're not.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Let me check the record books. No, no, they're not, actually, Rebecca. I don't know. It's a fun debate, but I don't think you can decisively say that it's been a waste.
Lowe: I actually can decisively say that, and I'm actually going to. I'm actually going to.
Hunt: [LAUGHS] Hot takes! That's what we do.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] All right. Next ground, we've got… What about Spain-Germany. You wanna go there?
Hunt: I mean, Germany, obviously, needed a result, and that late goal by Füllkrug…
Lowe: Yeah, by the way, who is he? I mean, he's 29. Literally no one's ever heard of him. He's from Werder Bremen. And I'm like, who? How have I never heard of this chap? Well done, by the way, 29 years old, out from goodness knows where into the German national team, scores a goal. Well played, son.
Hunt: So now, Germany have a lifeline that they did not have before. And I think Spain have nothing to be ashamed of particularly. I mean, it's not the same as beating Costa Rica 7-0. But, you know, a draw against Germany, you're always gonna take that, especially in the group stage. So, we will see where they go. If any country was gonna lose the first game, get a draw their second game, and then go on to win the World Cup, it would be Germany.
Lowe: Oh, that's so true. I mean, it's so funny as an England fan…
Hunt: So irritating.
Lowe: Right. Are they the most irritating team in the world of football? One hundred percent. As an England fan, the pain that they have inflicted on us over the years in my lifetime is just humongous. OK? And so, even though they're a bit rubbish right now, they aren't the best, and they haven't been the best for a wee while since they won the World Cup in 2014, I'm still scared of Germany. I'm still nervous of them. I still think they can win every World Cup that's put in front of them. Even though we beat 'em in the Euros in Euro 2020, 2021, I still am scared of Germany. So, yes, they are. They are probably gonna go and win it, and that will be bloomin' annoying.
Hunt: We have no reason yet to believe, though we do not know for sure that Hansi Flick is a great manager, which just redoubles my fear. Also, you say you don't get into my fetishization of the Dutch team, and yet we have this discontent with Germany. So much in common, Rebecca. We are closer thank you think.
Lowe: That's true. That is true. Than we think. Love heart. I'm doing a love heart, massive love heart.
Hunt: Yeah. Love heart. Yup. Gareth Bale's symbol.
Lowe: Spain play how I would like England to play. Now, I actually think… Maybe this is hubris, as you would call it, but I actually think England's players are better than Spain's players. But Spain play… They move it so quickly. They hunt it down, which is exactly what we should've done against the United States. I am over that, though, I would like just to let the listeners know I'm [BREATHES DEEPLY] a lot calmer.
Hunt: Yeah, you sound like you've really put it behind you, bringing it up in the middle of the Spain-Germany rundown. Go ahead.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] But on the ball, when Spain then go hunt it down and get the ball back, they haven't got the quality that I think England have got. So, if England could just play like Spain… I mean, just move it quicker. We're not asking for a lot. Hunt it down, move it quicker. Tempo. End the story.
Hunt: We go now to France-Denmark. I mean, I believe I had Denmark as a potential dark horse surprise. It is not looking good for Denmark as of now. But oh, my gosh, Kylian Mbappé… Aye-yai-yai.
Lowe: [GROANS] I mean, just so much love for this player.
Hunt: What is he now? Twenty-two? Twenty-three? Hold on, I'm going to the tables. I'm going to the board. According to the big board, he is 23 for another few weeks.
Lowe: Wow.
Hunt: I mean, what if we are at the beginning here of, yeah, another Messi. And I feel like I don't see anyone, you know, touching him. And he's done so much already at this age. I mean, Champions Leagues are coming, you gotta think, but… Aye-yai-yai. He wins things by himself.
Lowe: Yeah. I mean, he's head and shoulders above everybody, it seems, at the World Cup right now. Will he stay at PSG where he's playing right now? He's from Paris. He says he wants to stay, but he's also kind of miserable about staying. So, I personally would like to see him come to the Premier League, obviously. But he reminds me a bit of Thierry Henry and his pump. It was that pace and then the double pace, like the afterburner. Like, he will run alongside a defender chasing a ball down. You think there's 50-50, and then all of a sudden, he's like the Road Runner. He's like, [IMITATES ROAD RUNNER RUNNING] and off he goes with those afterburners. He's just magic and his power and his gracefulness… I just think he's magic. I love watching him, and I'm absolutely terrified about him as well.
Hunt: One of the things he was mad about with PSG in these blows with PSG this season is that he said that they promised to get him a hold up player, and they didn't do that. And he so prefers playing with a hold up player. Now, at the 2018 World Cup, that hold up player was Olivier Giroud, who played almost every minute of France's tournament win in 2018, and he scored zero goals. And a lot of people then were like, well, they won the World Cup despite Olivier Giroud. Well, Giroud is now still there, and both him and Mbappé are scoring. So, perhaps he knows what kind of player he needs to play with.
Lowe: That's a great shout. And also, by the way, you don't win the World Cup despite anyone. You win a World Cup because of everyone. There's nobody that you carry to a World Cup final, in my opinion, and I just think Olivier Giroud is just pure class. Should we talk Cameroon-Serbia, another cracker 3-3?
Hunt: Oh my gosh, what a game. Yeah, just a couple quick things about this. There's André Onana, who's goalkeeper for Cameroon, who's leaving the team because he had a spat with the obviously incredibly cool manager, Rigobert Song. Song wanted him to play more like a normal goalkeeper, but Onana, his whole career, has enjoyed being the eccentric type, and apparently, that conversation led to Onana straight-up leaving Qatar today. And, you know, then Serbia goes ahead and scores three goals against Cameroon. So, maybe Mr. Song has overplayed his hand there. But one thing that I liked that I wanted to mention was on the, I believe, his second goal for Cameroon, Aboubakar comes in, and he scores, you know, like 10 minutes later and not just after that. But his goal that he scored appeared to be offside to nearly everyone, and the linesman did not raise his flag and he let it play out, and then the whole stadium was shocked to learn that he was not offside. We complain a lot about why didn't the linesman just raise his flag because he knew it was offside and, you know, save the player from risk of injury, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? But credit where it's due. This was an example of why it's best sometimes for the linesman to leave the flag down.
Lowe: Yeah, I agree with you. A hundred percent naked eye offside. I mean, in fact, kind of felt miles offside. And then the weird thing is, when you saw it on the replay, he was pretty onside. I mean, it wasn't like, miles the other way. So, I agree. God, who'd wanna be an official? Absolutely not me. I liked from this game… I just like seeing Mitrović do well. He seemed to have a lot of the ball. He had a lot of chances, scored as well.
Hunt: Hit the woodwork.
Lowe: Exactly, yeah. He's dangerous. The lovely goal for 3-1 that… Now, you had Denmark as dark horses. I had Serbia based mainly around Mitrović, and that goal for 3-1 for me was kind of what I thought we'd see more of from this Serbia team. I'm not sure they're gonna make it through now. I don't know. But I just like a good, old-fashioned center forward of which Mitrović is definitely one, and it's just good for the Premier League if the Premier League players do well. Going back to Rigobert Song, I mean the cap, the outfit… I just love these managers. They're just… Some of them, so corn. He is 100% the coolest manager out there, Rigobert Song.
Hunt: So, let's look at who we think might win this thing just very quickly. It would seem to me… Is it anyone besides these four who you think are the favorites? France, Portugal, Spain, Brazil.
Lowe: Um…
Hunt: Can you think of anyone?
Lowe: [LAUGHS] I mean, I think it's kind of quite mean. I think England are definitely part of the conversation. I mean…
Hunt: But they're not playing as well as those four. I mean, those four appear to have separated themselves, I'd say. And I mean, I still think Argentina are gonna win the whole thing, don't get me wrong, you know.
Lowe: OK.
Hunt: But I think there's a second tier.
Lowe: Yeah. England, good one game, not so good the next. But there's only two pieces of evidence that we are looking at. That's all we've got, just two pieces. I think France are now gonna win it [LAUGHS] going from… Both you and I, by the way, episode one, oh, flops of the tournament. Sure, that'll be… France will let us down. I mean, honestly, keep listening, guys, 'cause we have all the takes. They're gonna take you all the way to the bank. France, at the moment, I can see no one else but France other than your initial Argentina. I had Brazil initially. You had Argentina. But if you just for a second put Argentina to one side, it's France, isn't it? I mean, they look so good.
Hunt: Yeah. But then there is the old concern about a team peaking too early. I mean, is that overstated? Is that a thing? Could that be happening here? I think if you just won the World Cup and then you are coming out, you know, all guns blazing in the next one, I don't think peaking too early is at all likely here.
Lowe: I agree. And I also think peaking within a World Cup is almost impossible. I mean, it's such a short period of time. To have a trajectory going one way and then another, I just don't think that applies. For me, they're standout at the moment.
Hunt: And, of course, Holland's in the second tier, too. I know you agree.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
OK. USA and England. So, let's get to Group B. Group A and Group B tomorrow will both get themselves resolved. We will know which four teams are making it to the round of 16. And they will, of course, be playing each other. The number one finisher in Group A, possibly Holland, will play the number two finisher in Group B, possibly England, and so on and so on and so on. And how you feeling, Rebecca?
Lowe: Ooh. How am I feeling? I'm feeling a little calmer than I felt post-USA game. I'm feeling like, also, I think that… What I sort of allowed to be overshadowed after the game through my disappointment was just that if we lose 4-nil to Wales, we're going home. And dare I say, that isn't going to happen. So, unless we lose 4-nil, we're through. So, I think we're through, and therefore, I'm imploring Gareth Southgate to rest some players, make some changes. Give Phil Foden… I mean, I still haven't seen a picture of him. I don't know where he is. There is suggestions that he was in a Qatari nightclub and therefore… No.
Hunt: Wait, was there really?
Lowe: No, no, no. I think… [LAUGHS]
Hunt: First of all, A, there's a Qatari nightclub!?
Lowe: [LAUGHS] I know. B, can we go? No, I'm fairly certain he does have a touch of history when nightclubs are concerned. I'm not gonna lie, Phil Foden, but no, that is a complete fabrication. It just came from Twitter. Obviously, a fabrication.
Hunt: Well, let's definitely air it out here then.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Yeah. So, please start Foden. Please start Grealish. I'm asking again. Give Harry Kane a rest. We're now finding out, through Gareth Southgate, that it was a foot injury, not an ankle injury, which, side note, thank goodness 'cause he has got the dodgy ankle, so foot better where Harry Kane is concerned. He wasn't fit. He definitely wasn't fit against USA. Unfit Harry Kane is so detrimental. Please give him a rest because we are virtually definite of going through. Give him a rest. Play Wilson, play Rashford. Rashford, they put him out to do the press conference, which sometimes gives you a hint as to who starts. 'Cause it might be a bit odd letting Rashford talk to the press and then not start him. I wonder whether he's gonna rest Kane and play Rashford, Grealish and Foden. For me, that would be Southgate being kind of… Not brave because it's not the result, you know. I think we're going to be OK, but that would be a bit crazy from Gareth, who is notoriously so safe and so cautious. But I hope he makes the changes. Apparently, Henderson's gonna come into midfield for Jude Bellingham. I mean, Rolls-Royces do need a rest every now and then. And he is only like, nine years old… No, he's 19 years old. He needs a rest. That's fine. Bring in Jordan who… Although I said on Instagram during the game against USA why is he putting Jordan Henderson on? And I stick by that. We needed a goal. I still don't really understand. When Henderson came on, his professionalism shone through. He actually ran and pressed the ball, which is what nobody else did. So, I'm fine with him doing that if he gives Bellingham a rest. Keep the back line as it is. I think Walker might come in for Trippier. I'm fine with that, too, because Trippier's been off his game. So, I feel good because the odds are so much in our favor even though the Welsh want to absolutely annihilate us. Good luck to you. We are going through, hopefully with some changes, and then the round of 16 is a whole new kettle of fish. How are you feeling? Because in and around Iran against USA, there's kind of a whole bunch stuff going on.
Hunt: Oh, no, I haven't noticed anything. Just real quick, one scenario that would delight me because of your confidence is if in the first minute, Rashford gets a red card, and then Wales goes on to win 4-nothing. OK.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] By the way, do you think I'm being like, arrogant-confident?
Hunt: No.
Lowe: Do you think I'm being like… No, no. Seriously, though. Do you think I'm being…?
Hunt: No, you're not. You're not.
Lowe: 'Cause it's 4-nil. We're not gonna lose 4-nil, are we?
Hunt: I can't imagine that happening…
Lowe: Other than Rashford.
Hunt: …unless something crazy like the early red card happens, which, you know, that's not a never in the history of football. I remember a Champions League game I went to a couple years ago. Chelsea-Ajax. Ajax was at 4-1 at Stamford Bridge and then got two red cards on the same play. And then Chelsea came back to draw 4-4. Now, Wales are not Chelsea, so we'll see. And, you know, make sure people know this again. How many countries are in this country? Four, and one of them is Wales. For Wales, it's a derby of sorts, international derby. And they will be desperate to get a result. But in the end, I think that won't affect England so much as it could theoretically affect Iran.
Lowe: Yeah, it's a derby for both of us. And don't get me wrong, England fans wanna beat Wales, but Wales wanna beat England way, way more. It reminded me a little bit the other day of the opening segment of the coverage for USA-England, where Alexi Lalas did a whole rousing "let's go, USA" speech. And then Clint Dempsey followed up, and then Kelly Smith, who played for the England women's national team a few years ago just said everyone, just calm down. It's just another game for England.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
It's just another game, guys, calm down. I loved it. I sent her a message. Yes, Kelly! [LAUGHS] OK. Let's talk your… Let's talk The Guys.
Hunt: OK. So, The Guys, here they come. Now, in general, I'm feeling, you know, in strictly football terms, I'm feeling reasonably confident. But we don't really know what Iran are yet. Like, they were carrying the weight of the world in that England game. Maybe that didn't affect the result too much, but it could have had bearing. And you know, they were certainly playing well against Wales. Not scoring, but they were playing well up until the red card. Nonetheless, with all that, I think we should be beating Iran. And I love the fact that we have to beat them. You know, there's none of this like, oh, draw will do. Nope, no. Gonna have to be straight outta the blocks and get after it and do so in a, as I think someone on "Fox" said today, a smart way. What worries me more than anything else is the weight of external things on this game. To that end, I wanna point people to a really good article on espn.com today. It's an oral history of the last time the U.S. played around in the World Cup in 1998. It's by Jeff Carlisle and Kyle Bonagura. And I love an oral history. I love it. And this one does not disappoint. An incredible, incredible amount of information on what was going on behind the scenes here. And that was in '98 when like… Who could've possibly thought this in 1998? But that 24 years later, there would be another game between the U.S. and Iran that would have an even more combustible background to it in terms of politics and human rights. So, for people who are not up to speed here with the most recent things, for one thing, U.S. soccer's, you know, social media team posted, you know, the flags of all the countries that were playing in our group, as you do from time to time. But they omitted on the Iranian flag the symbol that distinguishes the current Iranian flag, which is the symbol of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Now, protestors in Iran have been doing that with some regularity, and people have been trying to get this flag into matches as well. So, this was allegedly by U.S. soccer, not allegedly, I mean definitely, to support the protestors in Iran. But then, the government of Iran and the Football Association went absolutely ballistic, and it was taken down very, very quickly. So, then today, I think it was just today, in today's pre-match press conference, Berhalter and team captain Tyler Adams had to deal with far more pointed questions than they have had to in the past about things. Berhalter was asked how he feels about a American warship that is off the coast of Iran, and Tyler Adams was, first of all, corrected on his pronunciation of Iran. He had said "I-ran" as many Americans tend to do incorrectly.
Lowe: I'm actually OK with that. I'm actually OK with him being corrected and the way he accepted it, which we'll hear in a minute. I'm OK with that.
Hunt: Yeah, yeah. I mean, 100%. But the questioner went on to ask how Adams feels about being part of a country where Black people are discriminated against, which is, you know, an attempt by their porter to be like, you know, tit for tat. Oh, yeah? You wanna complain about our country? Well, here's some complaints about your country. As if we don't know that our country has problems. Tyler Adams's response was diplomatic and pretty great.
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Tyler Adams: You know, there's discrimination everywhere you go. You know, one thing that I've learned, especially from living abroad in the past years and having to fit in in different cultures, is that in the U.S., we're continuing to make progress every single day. And obviously, it takes longer to understand, and through education… I think it's super important. Like, you just educated me now on the pronunciation of your country. So, yeah, it's a process. I think as long as you see progress, that's the most important thing.
[END FIFA+ ARCHIVAL CLIP]
Lowe: That clip there, coming to us courtesy of FIFA+. You're right. The way you mentioned it before, Brendan, how he answered that. I mean, he's 23 years of age, Tyler Adams. I'm not sure if I was the captain of my country and I was told by the press team beforehand, you're gonna go and you're gonna sit and they're gonna ask you who knows what that I wouldn't be incredibly nervous. He didn't sound it. He sounded in control. He sounded educated. He sounded fair. He sounded diplomatic, but he sounded like a leader of men. And I think he answered that question perfectly. You're right. It was of course a tit-for-tat question because by the way, every country in the world could ask a million questions of every other country in the world. And it's a shame, actually, in some ways, that we have this right now, this situation. But I thought he was class.
Hunt: Yeah. Incredibly composed for his age and yeah, very leaderly. So, now there's all this background going on for the match, and let's try to get back to the match itself for a second. I, again, I think we should win this thing. I don't know who goes up front. That's kind of the only real question for the States. Has our Lazy Susan plate of strikers finally spun its way to Jesus Ferreira? We shall see. Or I think Clint Dempsey said it's a matter of just getting all our best players in the pitch. Put Weah up front, perhaps as a false nine, and then get Reyna or Aaronson on the right. [SIGHS HEAVILY] That's the only question. So, we shall see. But I am cautiously optimistic.
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Lowe: Looking ahead then, Brendan, to the last round of group play where each team in the group plays their opponents at the same time as each other. So, the four teams in Group A play at the exact same time because, of course, they depend on each other as to who'll go through. They can't have staggering kick-offs because it would give an advantage to the teams that played later. So, they all kick-off at the same time, which is just joyous, although also really difficult if you're flicking between games.
Hunt: And further, what they're trying to avoid there is collusion. And that comes from a game in 1982 when West Germany played Austria as the last game of the first group stage. And they both knew they would both go through if Germany only won by one goal. So, Austria essentially let Germany score, and then they just kicked the ball back and forth to each other for 85 minutes despite the rain of boos from the fans.
Lowe: Yeah. That's terrible, isn't it? I mean, amazing it took until 1982 for that actually to happen. But, yeah, thank goodness they changed the rules on that one, which means this will be a fiesta football, a festival of football, a feast of footy. Who's playing, and who should we look for?
Hunt: Yeah. So, you can only watch one game at a time unless you wanna get out your second TV or, you know, get fully, you know…
Lowe: Which we're all doing, by the way. I feel like now in 2022, I'm gonna have phone, tablet, TV. We're doing it.
Hunt: I definitely have the tablet. But still, you will have a prime tv. You have your main TV. The better game gets pride of place in those. I think for Group A, Senegal-Ecuador is your game you wanna do because the other one's Netherlands-Qatar, which probably will not be as dramatic a game. Group B, obviously, we'll have differences of opinions there, so… But no, USA-Iran is a big game for the neutrals, right? Yeah.
Lowe: Yeah, it's got more on it for sure. Yeah.
Hunt: Group C, you get Mexico-Saudi or Argentina-Poland, and you gotta go Argentina-Poland. I mean, they might both get through theoretically with a draw, but they might not. You know, Saudi's got those three points, and Mexico hasn't even scored yet.
Lowe: Oh, and by the way, they denied the Rolls-Royce thing. Did you see that? So, they were given their Rolls-Royces, but apparently they weren't. Not sure. Not sure if I believe it. Think they've all got rollers. Carry on.
Hunt: [CHUCKLES] Well, I mean, they haven't gotten them yet. They haven't gotten home yet.
Lowe: True.
Hunt: A similar situation in Group D, I think Denmark-Australia is the game to watch because, somehow, Australia has three points, and Denmark has one.
Lowe: [SCOFFS] [IMITATING AUSTRALIAN ACCENT] That Socceroos… Beautiful, mate.
Hunt: [LAUGHS] No wukkas. Group E, I think you gotta go Germany-Costa Rica.
Lowe: Costa Rica are weird. How weird are Costa Rica? Like, how weird to be thumped and then win? It's very weird. So, yeah, I agree. They could easily beat Germany, by the way, just 'cause Germany are also a little bit weird this tournament, but will probably end up winning the whole thing
Hunt: Yeah. I mean, they beat the team that beat Germany, so why not? Group F, the aforementioned Belgium against Croatia, which, you know, was supposed to be a much bigger game than it's actually going to be now, but it's still, you know, it's Belgium hanging on by their fingernails. Group G, I think you gotta go Switzerland-Serbia. Now, they played in 2018, and it was very controversial because there were multiple members of Switzerland's team who have Kosovan roots, and Switzerland won 2-1. And the two players who scored, Shaqiri and Xhaka, are both, you know, two of the players with the Serbian roots. So, they made the symbol of the Albanian flag, the Albanian eagle, with their hands. And there was complaints to FIFA from Serbia. There were fines, et cetera. It just… It's one of those politically charged matchups. Now, Xhaka and Shaqiri are still there, so we will see what happens. But both of those teams need a result. And then I think, somewhat surprisingly, in Group H, it's Ghana-Uruguay.
Lowe: Uruguay are so disappointing. I said at the beginning of the tournament… I think I said they were gonna be my team that are gonna be most fun to watch. Just with all that talent, it's just not that much fun. Disappointing. Ghana, go for it. Yeah, exactly.
Hunt: Haven't even scored. Then Mexico and Tunisia, not a single goal. And Ghana, you know, Ghana showed out today. So, we will see what happens there. So, that's your pride of place, nice TV selections.
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Lowe: We are gonna wrap it up though now with a few final thoughts, sort of any other business that's kind of… Every time something crosses my brain, I write it on my phone. I think, oh, I must mention that on the pod, so I'm sure you do the same, Brendan. What have you got on your list?
Hunt: Twice in the last two days of matches has a referee called the allotted time, which the referee is the one who chooses the amount of allotted time, and then, that referee has not actually played that amount of added time that they themselves declared. It was the Dutch ref in Germany-Spain, it was a Salvadorian ref in Brazil-Switzerland. Come on. What are you doing? [LAUGHS] It drives me nuts. If we're gonna have this rule where the ref gets to decide everything, the ref has gotta be consistent on what they decide!
Lowe: I feel like this added time thing is so mentally interesting in that if you're 2-1 down and they hold up a big old 10 on those Hublot square things, you're like, bring it on. We're gonna win the game even though we're 2-1 down. And if you're 2-1 up and they bring up 10, you're like, oh, Jesus, it's over. So, it's so interesting.
Hunt: I have absolutely come around on this. Yeah, we were down on it earlier in the pod, but now I'm into it. [LAUGHS]
Lowe: I mean, it's value for money, for sure, but I just, I actually think… I suppose it's correct by the letter of the law they are playing the time that's being wasted or whatever where the ball's outta play. But I just think the effect it has is so interesting on a human level. So interesting. 'Cause holding up four and holding up 11 is like a world apart in football terms. At the end of a game when you're all exhausted, plus some of the subs that come on who are not exhausted, it's so… It's like a little mini game, isn't it?
Hunt: Yeah. [CHUCKLES] That's exactly what it is. Yeah. Anything else there on your little Moleskine of notions?
Lowe: [LAUGHS] I think on my Moleskine of notions, I think something that's just struck me more than maybe any other World Cup or Euro so far in my life is the very simple, I mean, this is not, you know, rocket science, but the very simple joy on display of scoring a goal. The goal celebrations seem to encompass every substitute, of which there are about 72 now on the sidelines. Any goal is such a huge moment personally for your country, for the World Cup, for history that witnessing goal celebrations for me is what it's all about. It is that complete unadulterated joy that you are then just praying to the VAR lords they don't then pull it back, and you lose that moment. But for me, I just… I'm enjoying it so much, just seeing all of the joy, quite frankly.
Hunt: Yeah. And counterpoint, it made it all the more impressive when Breel Embolo of Switzerland did not celebrate at all in their 1-0 win against Cameroon because that's the country of his birth. But that 1-0, you know… His goal made it 1-0, and that will be huge, huge for Switzerland.
Lowe: Also, just one final thing on goal celebrations. I know you don't like him. I know you really don't like him, but this is why I love him. Cristiano Ronaldo celebrating the goal that when Bruno chucked the ball and he headed it home, but he didn't head it. It clearly didn't touch his head, maybe touched a whisker of his hair. Who knows? We'll never know. He celebrated like he had literally won the World Cup because he was trying to convince us all that he scored it. But you know what? I'm OK with that. First of all, if he hadn't jumped and been there, then the keeper would've got it 'cause it was not sailing into the top corner. So, well done, Cristiano. But the fact they took it off and gave it to Bruno, he would've been so mad, especially then when he was off when they got penalty. But I'm all for that. Like, I got it! I got it! No, you didn't, mate, but well play for trying to convince us. [LAUGHS]
Hunt: No, if I shout it loud enough, I'll make it true.
Lowe: Yeah! Good for him. That's why we love, or I love, not you, Cristiano Ronaldo.
Hunt: All right, folks, we're gonna see you tomorrow. Rebecca's gonna be in a good mood regardless. Hopefully, I will too. To the United States men's national team, aka The Guys, good luck tomorrow, fellas. Give 'em heck.
Lowe: Yeah. Good luck to you guys tomorrow. I really, really want America to go through. So, good luck. And by the way, peeps listening… Peeps, has anyone used that since 2002? I don't think so. I think I was just the first person…
Hunt: Thanks for dusting it off.
Lowe: No worries. 20 years on. Peeps, we are actually basically on every day this week, so you simply can't be behind on listening to this podcast.
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Hunt: If you're loving the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts and be sure to rate and review us. It really helps other people find the show.
Lowe: And for 'round the clock World Cup news plus live scores, standings, everything you need to know from the World Cup, just follow along on the Apple News app in My Sports where available.
Hunt: We'll be back tomorrow with more World Cup coverage. We're thinking it will be of this World Cup, but who knows?
Lowe: I like 1990.
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