Rebecca Lowe: Come on, Gareth. Leave him on. Let him get a hat trick for the love of God. Unleash him! [GROANS]
Brendan Hunt: This is, by the way, the difference in our afternoons in a nutshell. I, who literally did not sit for an hour and a half.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
And you're like, oh, let him have a hat trick. Come on, Gaz! Keep him in there! He’s got an MBE. He bought breakfast for everybody. Come on.
[MUSIC FADES IN]
[WHISTLE BLOWS]
From Apple News and Meadowlark Media, I'm Brendan Hunt.
Lowe: And I'm Rebecca Lowe, and this is a very happy “After the Whistle.”
Hunt: Reminder, there will be adult language. Celebratory in nature, but nonetheless adult.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Lowe: Brendan, how are we?
Hunt: [WHOOPS]
Lowe: Happiest of all the days so far this World Cup? Little stressed out, but now, OK?
Hunt: It is just past one o'clock, and I am five Sam Adams in again. Sam Adams, a beer that is not allowed in the U.K. because it is the beer of a war criminal.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
That was a far more tense way than I care to spend my lunchtimes, but here we are. [PANTING]
Lowe: I mean, we decided, didn’t we, before the games. I'll watch England game. You watch this game, and then we'll confer on the pod. But because England game finished quite a long time before, and actually I kind of left it a few minutes early, I did catch the last 10 or so of the USA game, which we will come to. But for the rest of the game, for anyone who watched who wants context or anyone who didn't watch who wants to know what on earth happened today, from the USA perspective… I mean, well done! First of all, massive congrats. You're through to the knockout stages.
Hunt: [EXHALES WITH RELIEF] Oh boy. That was really the goal of this. You know, to restore a bit of where we were in days of old required not only getting to the World Cup, but also getting outta the group stage. We don't often do much more than that. So, that was kind of the baseline to really say this was a successful World Cup. So, now we're playing with the house money, which is nice, and we're going up against, well, frankly, the casino. But we'll get to the future. OK, Rebecca. So, shall I talk you through it?
Lowe: Oh, I would love nothing more.
Hunt: OK. So, pretty early on, it felt like the U.S. was exerting dominance for about 25 minutes of solidly holding onto the ball, keeping the ball, getting into the final third. I think at one point the stat was the U.S. had 21 balls into the final third, and Iran had zero. This is at around this time. Pulisic in particular was having a very good game. He had a good touch early, which I felt was important 'cause I… This feels like the kind of game that he rises into.
The only flaw at this point in the U.S. for me was Christian Pulisic is continuing to take the corners, and I don't know if a single one of his corners has been threatening for this entire tournament. But I also, as long as you're not putting Aaronson or Reyna in the mix, I don't know who else is supposed to take them. So, that's a bit of a poisoned chalice. Shout out. My friend Moe, who plays Zoreaux on the television program called “Ted Lasso…” He arrived late, but he did it the right way. He slipped in…
Lowe: [SIGHS WITH RELIEF] Thank goodness. Yeah.
Hunt: He didn't say a word. He looked for eye contact from the host, me. Nodded. And we were good. We were good. So, shout out to Moe.
Lowe: He's listened. I’m so glad that we've helped so many people with that.
Hunt: Yeah. And by the way… [SIGHS] So folks, a lot of you people who have been having smaller World Cup gatherings, now we're getting to the knockout stages with a real like, marquee opponent. So, you're gonna have more newcomers getting ready to come to your house to watch this match. Let them know the rules. Get it clear ahead of time. OK. What do I have here? Oh, I have written down here "Fun fact. U.S. has…" And then I stopped writing. Oh, you know why I stopped writing?
[LAUGHTER]
Lowe: So fun.
Hunt: Because at that exact moment, Christian Pulisic scored a goal.
Lowe: Yeah, he did.
Hunt: It was thrilling. Like, he has needed his marquee World cup moment that a team's marquee player needs to have. The assist for Weah in the first match is only half the battle. But here he is. He scored, and then he went down.
Lowe: How do you guys celebrate? How do you celebrate? Was it carnage?
Hunt: It was carnage, and it was high fives, and it was hugs, but I didn't take my eyes off the screen because Pulisic never got up.
Lowe: Yeah. And went off injured, didn’t he, at half-time?
Hunt: He was down for a very, very, very long time.
Lowe: What's the injury? What do we know, Brendan?
Hunt: Well, the latest official word was that it was an abdominal injury, and he had been taken to the hospital, and that was according to U.S. Soccer. But now even while we are recording, we are seeing [LAUGHS] on Twitter, a picture of Pulisic triumphantly raising his fist from a hospital bed. True win one for the Gipper, except the Gipper still gets to play in the game vibes. So, looks like we'll have him going in on Saturday. Hopefully, but we don’t know for sure yet.
Lowe: He says, doesn't he, I'll be ready for Saturday. He looks like he's full of morphine, but fair enough.
Hunt: [LAUGHS] Oh, when the morphine talks, the morphine says big things.
Lowe: Oh God, I really hope that isn’t the case. [EXHALES DEEPLY]
Hunt: It was case a real hard collision with the Iranian keeper. And at that point, I'm thinking well, he died as he lived, scoring for the U.S.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
But he eventually did get up, and he soldiered bravely on for the remaining eight minutes or so by the time he got up. But still, it was immediately terrifying. And then we were down to 10 men while he was off getting attended to on the sideline, and then even down to 10 men, Sargent had a really good chance. [GROANS] Oh boy. So, then we get the halftime. We're up 1-nothing. And as you well know, a 1-nothing lead, when a draw knocks you out is emotionally excruciating.
Lowe: [GROANS] Mm-hmm.
Hunt: And we did not know it yet, but we were about to go onto a 55-minute journey.
Lowe: You did know it. I mean, let's be honest. It was gonna be a 10-minute add-on no matter what. Yeah.
Hunt: Well, yeah, but I thought maybe we'd score a goal.
Lowe: Right, OK.
Hunt: You know, somewhere in that time. We did not! So, Aaronson comes in. So, the pro-Aaronson crowd, and I… 'cause I'm part of the pro-Aaronson crowd even though he spells his first name wrong.
[LOWE CHUCKLES]
Finally get to see him get a proper run. At that point also, on a personal level, I'm hoping that Wales beats England because if Wales beats England and the U.S. beats Iran, well then, the U.S. doesn't have to play Holland this weekend. But at this point, it was 2-nothing England, and that dream had died. But Iran still needed a draw.
Lowe: Can I just pick you up on Aaronson please?
Hunt: Sure.
Lowe: Because having not seen the second half… So, did he come on for Pulisic at half time?
Hunt: He did.
Lowe: OK. And…
Hunt: Apparently, the rules say someone had to, and he was chosen for this patriotic duty.
Lowe: And how did he do?
Hunt: He did pretty well. He looked like the Brenden Aaronson who plays for Leeds.
Lowe: Good.
Hunt: He was getting… He was chasing balls down. He was getting involved. It didn't have a lot of end product to it in the long run.
Lowe: Right.
Hunt: Nor do I recall him having any particular like, great chance in front of goal. But he was a firecracker that he always is, and I love him.
Lowe: OK. You don't score a lot of goals, do you? That is maybe the problemo. Would that be harsh or?
Hunt: Oh. Yeah. But at the same time, oh my gosh. I mean, that's the huge bummer of Pulisic going out at half-time. Like, Pulisic looked like he was finally locked in and ready to boss a game. And then we lose him. At the same time, somebody else has gotta score. OK. So, going through the second half a little more quickly… So, Cameron Carter-Vickers started for Walker Zimmerman.
Lowe: But why? Pace?
Hunt: I suspect calmness from what I was watching because between him and Ream, that's the most stoic and Zen center back pairing I've seen for the U.S. in a very, very long time. And CCV had, I think, a slightly more ostentatiously good match. Like, he ran some balls down. He ran guys outta bounds.
Lowe: Hmm. Great. That's perfect.
Hunt: He was very, very good. And I suspect he holds onto his spot against [ROLLS “R”] Reyna. OK. So, we're holding on. We're holding on. We're holding on, get to the 83rd minute or 82nd, and at that point, Berhalter has two subs left. And you know, we're all kind of hoping like, you know, Reyna and Ferreira. But instead, he puts in Shaq Moore and Walker Zimmerman, commits to five at the back.
Lowe: [WHISTLES] I mean, do you blame him at that stage with eight minutes to go plus stoppage time, which is probably another 10. I mean, you don't… It's that age-old conundrum. Are you gonna try and go for a second, or are you gonna lock it up, and you… I mean, it's a World Cup. You gotta try and lock it up, haven't you?
Hunt: Yeah. It is the age-old conundrum, and it is… He's blameless for doing it, and results would suggest it was the right call despite some precarious moments from Shaq Moore, who we will get to. But it was a bit of a bummer 'cause it seemed like another goal was there for the taking. But still, the smart tournament-coaching play… So, CCV and Ream, very calm, very Zen. Then in comes Walker Zimmerman, and he's immediately yelling at people, which actually is probably what you want that late in the game. 'Cause wake up, everybody! We're getting it done! It wasn't until the 87th minute that Iran had their first corner, and from then on until the 99th minute and because nine minutes of extra time was eventually called, [SIGHS HEAVILY] it was fairly harrowing.
Lowe: That's when I tuned in, I would say, just after that corner from Iran, and I thought blooming heck, I hope they haven't had to do this for the last 45 minutes. That was horrible to watch, that last… [WHISTLES]
Hunt: No, it was absolutely harrowing. And then, around about the 96th minute, I think, Iran officially were out of ideas and were just playing for penalties. There was a rather comical dive that had the contact quote unquote of CCV with one hand on Torabi’s shoulder. But he went down, and like, it even went to VAR because of the lusty fashion in which Iran was begging for a review.
Lowe: Well actually, did it go to a review because we were watching it…
Hunt: It did. Yeah.
Lowe: It did, did it? OK. Because it was pretty quick though. I mean, it was no way near a penalty. But you just worry, don't you. I'm assuming as a U.S. fan, you're thinking this is gonna be the day that the referee has sort of a moment of madness and decides that that is a penalty. 'Cause by the way, we've seen them given, and I was thinking please, no. Please don't give a penalty. I was so relieved. But was it right after that, Brendan, or was it right before? I think it might have been right after that when Haji, when the ball went long and Haji Wright got the ball on the lefthand side of the box, and instead of taking it to the corner, just delivered the limpest shot ever. And I'm like, oh my… Oh no. That is the naivety, unfortunately, that's been on display. It's like, mate, you've gotta take it to the… And then Iran went up the other end, and you're like, this is gonna be on Haji Wright. If they score here, this is on Haji Wright, and I… Nobody wants that. But mate, it's about the corner flag right then.
Hunt: Hundred percent. And if you get the shot on target, perhaps our fury is mitigated, but it was… Yeah, it was to say it was a limp squib of a shot. And then there was one more sort of Iranian half-hearted attempt at a penalty dive.
Lowe: Mm. [CHUCKLES]
Hunt: And then, the final whistle was blown, which for a moment there, it was like, oh my God. Did they…
Lowe: You thought it was a penalty. [LAUGHS]
Hunt: Did they actually call that penalty? Are you fucking kidding me? But no, it was for the end of the match, and oh my gosh, the relief of it. What was your take in the final 10 minutes that you were so generous as to watch?
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Well, thank you. I thought it was either gonna end 1-1 with Iran going through, or it was gonna end 2-nil to you because of just the way that you guys were sitting [LAUGHS] back and hanging on for your lives.
Hunt: Yeah, it was insane.
Lowe: Yeah. So, you were either gonna get a breakaway goal like Haji Wright should have scored or maybe should have not scored, but actually take it to the corner flag like I said. Or Iran were gonna get a goal. I mean, that's a horrible feeling. All I was doing, to be quite honest with you, Brendan, I was sitting there going I'm so glad right now this isn't my game.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
I'm so glad I'm not USA right now because I have lived through so many of those 10 minutes.
Hunt: Oh, yeah.
Lowe: And this comes back to what we said yesterday on the pod about the extra time because when he put up the sign…
Hunt: Yes.
Lowe: …that said nine minutes, I said to my husband well, that's just given Iran the biggest lift of all time. And actually, that is really when you guys almost looked the most nervous. It was almost like, can we make it for another nine minutes? I dunno if we can. Like Musah looked absolutely out on his feet, and I don't blame any of them. But that nine minutes, mentally for Iran in this particular case, it didn't work in their favor. But it certainly lifted them. And on any other occasion, this added time that we are now doing in 2022 World Cup is gonna change the face of a lot of games, I think, certainly between now and the final. But I felt for you. It's a horrible feeling. You feel sick. Seconds take so long, don't they? You look at the clock, and you're like, do seconds normally take this long?
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Did someone slow down the clock? It's the horriblest feeling. So, I definitely felt you. But we just wanted USA to get through. Absolutely delighted that you guys got through. Really, really am. So deserved, a lot of the players… I mean, Tyler Adams, again.
Hunt: Again.
Lowe: I mean, from what I saw in the last 15 minutes, let alone the rest of the game, I'm sure he was just brilliant. He's just… He's one of the players of this tournament so far.
Hunt: Agree 100%. And yet, and I was thinking about it afterwards, like I'm not quite sure if he was man of the match. It might be Cameron Carter-Vickers, and it actually might be Pulisic. He really had an incredible half and then sacrificed his body for the goal that proved to be decisive. And I know generally speaking, you're not gonna give player the match to someone who only played 45 minutes, but he really bossed it, and he really showed why he’s our North Star at the very least. It was quite a performance. Now, I dare say, before we get into what the future holds for the U.S., please take this moment. Talk us through the England game. Far less tense for you because all you needed to do really was not lose by four goals, which was never gonna happen. However, if Wales had won and the U.S. had won, then England was at risk of falling in the second place and facing the far tougher opponent Holland in the second round.
Lowe: Well, before I get into the game, you say easier opponents, Senegal over Holland. I'm not actually 100% sure. Not only with that game, I think Senegal are excellent. I'm not… I think Holland have been disappointing. Get onto that later. But I actually think that side of the draw, the side that USA are now in, is an easier route to the final, if you're gonna aim for the final, than the one that England will now have to face. Because if you can get past Senegal, it looks like it's gonna be France in the quarterfinals. No thanks. So, actually, there's an argument that finishing second might have been beneficial. OK. So…
Hunt: Fair play.
Lowe: Yeah. So, a couple of things. I might be proved wrong, of course, as football always does make fools of us, doesn't it? But this weekend, we'll see. But in terms of the game, 3-nil winners, right? Great. Like you say, we were not going to lose this game by four goals. So, that was never gonna happen. He made some changes before the game. So, Foden came in. Walker came in. Henderson came in, and Rashford came in. Those are the four. I didn't mind the changes. I quite liked the changes. I still don't think Harry Kane's fit, and he still hasn't scored a goal, so that concerns me. So, the star of the show today… There were two stars of the show, which were two of the biggest calls actually that Southgate made, Marcus Rashford with two goals and Phil Foden with one goal, which tells me, and surely must tell Gareth Southgate, be more brave. Be more brave. Let's get, especially Phil Foden, but let's get these kids in. So, the first half was nothing to write home about. Rashford had a chance, not a great chance, difficult chance, which he could have scored. But into the half-time, so it's nil-nil. I'm thinking this is a bit of another damp squib. Second half was much better. So, Rashford came out. I think it was five minutes into second half. And he scored with a free kick. But who won the free kick? Phil Foden. Phil Foden drew three players, three Welsh players around him.
Pulled him down, and Rashford with the beauty of a free kick. So, that is why I call for Phil Foden. If people at home wondering why I'm always going on about Grealish and always going on about Phil Foden, it's because they can do things like that. They win fouls all the time. So, we only got that free kick because it was Phil Foden because he needs three players surrounding him because he's that good with a ball at his foot. So Rashford scores a free kick, and then a couple of minutes later, it's 2-nil. And this has come from a high press, would you believe, after what we were talking about? Foden… I'm convinced maybe Pep Guardiola texted him at half half-time.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
I reckon he went back into the dressing room, and he looked at his phone, Phil Foden. Pep’s just sent him a little cheeky one. Just like, look, just do what you do for me. All right? We all know it's the way forward. Just get out there second half, right? And just press. And so, that's what we did. They pressed, and they got, won the ball back, and Kane crossed it for Foden, virtual tap-in. But it all came from pressing the ball, which we haven't done virtually the whole of this World Cup. That was 2-nil. And then, he made some substitutions. Now, Gareth and his subs over the years, not my favorite relationship. Callum Wilson, Trent, Kalvin Phillips came on. Kane went off. OK, fine. The thing with this is do you want him to score a goal and get a goal in him, or do you wanna rest him? Personally, I'd have rested him against USA.
Hunt: You wanna rest him. A hundred percent, you wanna rest him.
Lowe: Yeah, but he hasn't scored. But yeah. Declan Rice went off. Rest him. Fine. And Kyle Walker 'cause he's been working his way back to fitness. He's obviously… He played really well. He's gonna play in the knockout round. So, the ones going off, I'm fine with. Callum Wilson came on, didn't do a whole lot. Trent looked alright. Kalvin Phillips, steady, Jordan Henderson stayed on. God, he had really bad tackle from Aaron Ramsey and stayed on. And apparently, he was the one screaming and shouting around the pitch and bossing all the players around. I was listening to some of the "BBC" commentary, and they were saying that the only thing they could hear at the stadium was Jordan Henderson shouting. But like, we were winning 3-nil. I don't quite understand what the shouting was about. I really like Jordan Henderson. I don't wanna sound like I don't. He's a class operator on and off the field. But with winning 3-nil, we don't need to be shouting. That's like, the olden days, isn't it? We set an example with how we play the game, and there were moments where England were much better and a little bit more like against Iran. But it wasn't by any means convincing. So, then it was 3-nil. Rashford had gone to the right and scored from the right, think that was on 68 minutes. But then, another decision I don't understand, Brendan, from Gareth Southgate. Seventy-five minutes on the clock, and he takes Marcus Rashford off. He is on a hat trick, right? Just leave the kid on. Let him score a hat trick. There is probably not going to be, and I hope I'm wrong, but there's probably not gonna be another time maybe in his life that he is on a hat trick at a World Cup. Please let the kid try and score a hat trick. Only three players in an England shirt have ever scored a hat trick at a World Cup. Sir Geoff Hurst, World Cup in 1966, which we won, of course. Never mentioned it though. Lineker in the '86 World Cup, and then Harry Kane against Panama in 2018, although two of those were penalties. But he's still got a hat trick, a hat trick's a hat trick. There are gonna be probably, I hope I'm wrong, probably no other opportunities for Marcus Rashford MBE to score a hat trick at a World Cup. And he takes the kid off? Let the kid have a go at a hat trick at a World Cup. Wales are shot to pieces. He scored two really goals…
Hunt: Keep him hungry!
Lowe: I disagree! He looked devo when he came off, and I don't blame him. Come on, Gareth. Leave him on. Let him get a hat trick for the love of God. That really annoys me, stuff like that. It's a really different mindset to how I think and so many others think it's this kind of… Yeah, keep him hungry. Take him off. Let's essentially be cautious. Be negative. Take… No, let him have his moment. Unleash him! [GROANS]
Hunt: This is, by the way, the difference in our afternoons in a nutshell. I, who literally did not sit for an hour and a half, and you're like, oh, let him have a hat trick.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Come on, Gaz! Keep him in there! He’s got an MBE. He bought breakfast for everybody. Come on.
Lowe: Oh my goodness. I know. Well, I'm sorry. It's just where the two countries are right now. It's not my fault. It's just two different situations.
Hunt: Your concerns about Harry Kane not scoring immediately sends me to… and I've checked the books here. I've checked the numbers… to the 1982 World Cup because a striker need not score in the group stage to make a huge impact. And in the 1982 World Cup, which was won by Italy, Paolo Rossi did not score in the first group stage at all. And then, he did not score in the first game of the second group stage, which is something they had back then. Then he got a hat trick against Brazil and then scored two in the semifinal and one more in the final. That's six goals in the final three games.
Lowe: OK. I mean, I feel a bit better.
Hunt: Right, and since he scored five in the group stage last time but then one in the knockout rounds, maybe this time. you’ll get the, you know…
Lowe: Yeah, probably the other way around.
Hunt: Yeah.
Lowe: Yeah, I hope so. I just don't think he's fit though. He still doesn't look fit. And that's my big, big concern. Senegal, OK. And then you gotta play France. I mean, good luck. Anyway, the other thing I wanted to say is so far, I think I'm right in saying England are top scorers at this tournament as of when we are recording right now, and they're unbeaten. OK? Great. And they've scored nine goals. But, and I said this to my husband about three minutes before Ian Darke and Landon Donovan said it actually on the commentary. I turned to my husband, and I said the thing I think I'm gonna say on the pod is that I don't know if we're very good.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Like, I have no idea if we're a good team, Brendan, right? Because Iran were rubbish and emotionally shot to pieces that game. USA were a better team. So, that would be a no. We weren't good in that game. And then today, well Wales are not good, and they're full of… And by the way, nor should they be to be fair to them, right? How have they gotten to this world stage with a load of League One, League Two, Championship, and a sprinkling of Premier League and two over the hill, former world class players? I've no idea. So, I don't blame them for not being very good, but they're not very good. And we beat them 3-nil, so that gives us no idea. So, I'm like, are we… I've no idea. I couldn't tell you whether we can beat Senegal or not, but it's difficult to criticize if you're top scorers at the World Cup so far, and you're unbeaten, and you've won the group, and lots of different players have scored. But I don't know. Do you think we're any good?
Hunt: I think it's very likely that you are, yeah.
Lowe: Excellent news. [LAUGHS]
Hunt: You can only beat who's in front of you. And like, you didn't just beat the people you beat. You thumped them. And… …
Lowe: Yeah, but they're not very good. Iran and Wales are not very good, Brendan. So, what happens when we play…
Hunt: But you thumped ‘em. You know?
Lowe: I mean, yeah.
Hunt: Like, we labored. We labored to draw against Wales. We labored to beat Iran.
Lowe: Yeah. But then I think that I can tell more about what type of team USA are now after three games. I feel like I can… I've got a reading on them much more than a reading on England. So, we will see. Everything will come down to this weekend. Shall we talk about this weekend?
Hunt: Yes. And by the way, I think also you will need Harry Kane at some point.
Lowe: Course we will. So, blooming rest him. Don't play him in games where we don't actually need him when he's got an injured foot. [SIGHS]
Hunt: Yeah, but you cannot win the World Cup without him firing all cylinders at some point.
Lowe: True. True.
Hunt: A hundred percent of you there. Now, in terms of whether or not Senegal or the Netherlands are the tougher opponent, I mean, yeah, we haven't seen a full like, Oranje display. But they haven't needed to call it up yet. So, like, I think they're… Frankly, they might be pacing themselves.
Senegal without Mané, I'm just not that worried for England there.
Lowe: I feel a "Dutch in 60" coming on. I mean, I dunno if anyone else out there is listening and feels a "Dutch in 60" coming on, but…
Hunt: Sure.
Lowe: A seamless segue.
Hunt: Might as well. 'Cause it might be the last installment ever.
Lowe: It could well be. I actually think it will be, by the way. Before you do your "Dutch in 60," in my opinion, USA beats Holland.
Hunt: Oh, you’re saying that. You’re being very sweet.
Lowe: I'm sorry. No, I'm not being sweet. I think we've learned. I'm not being sweet. I'm being objective, and I want you to win. And I actually think you can win. Whether you will is a separate thing. I think you can. So, we haven't done a "Dutch in 60" for a couple of minutes.
Hunt: OK.
Lowe: So, my friend, do you have the stopwatch? Do you have the alarm?
Hunt: I have the stopwatch right here.
Lowe: OK.
Hunt: I hope the alarm is loud enough. Let's see. OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here we go. There we go. Ready?
Lowe: All right. So, in three, two, one, give us your latest please…
[TIMER TICKING]
…against now, your guys. "Dutch in 60."
Hunt: You're biting into my time. How dare you.
Lowe: Sorry!
Hunt: OK. Alright. OK. So, today, the Netherlands beats Qatar 2-0 to win the group, which was kind of never in doubt. They always thought we were gonna do that, and then we finally did that. Ecuador was the only team we did not get the full three points against. And Ecuador was a surprise, you know, outfit. They did very, very, very well. Cody Gakpo of PSV Eindhoven, rumored to be moving to Manchester United, he scored for the third game in a row. And you know what? that opens the door to? A Jairzinho. Only Jairzinho in the 1970 World Cup has ever scored in every single game of a World Cup, though Ronaldo and Rivaldo both came close in 2002.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Anyhoo, now they gotta go, and they gotta play the United States. And frankly, here's the thing. I just don't think that Holland has given their all yet. They have not had to like, put the pedal to the metal. And I think they have plenty left in the tank, and I fear they'll be too much. I think they're defensively sound. I think they're playing less riskily than they usually do.
[TIMER DINGS]
And that is my time.
Lowe: I agree with all that. And you might have a point that they've got stuff in the tank ready to unleash against you. And Gakpo is the problem. I mean, Virgil's a great, is brilliant obviously at the back.
Hunt: Yeah.
Lowe: And he's not gonna be scared is he, let's be honest, by many of your frontline. But I think that Gakpo, I mean it… Did you know that Southampton actually had an agreement with PSV, and he was gonna move to Southampton? And then, they pulled out the last minute, and then Leeds chucked a private jet out to try and get him. This was in the summer. And then now of course, like you say, Manchester United sniffed around, and now, it does look like he's gonna go to Manchester United in January, which would be great because he looks like a class operator. But I agree. Just to con… I think this is now turning into maybe a Dutch in five minutes.
Hunt: [LAUGHS] That’s your fault.
Lowe: But I'm with you on this because it's kind of an interesting topic. No, I'm OK now to talk about the orange men. So…
Hunt: They’ve earned it.
Lowe: Yeah. Cody Gakpo, [SCOFFS] that is gonna be the issue Saturday, 7 a.m., California time, I think.
Hunt: Well, Depay is hopefully playing himself back into shape as well, I mean, from the Netherlands perspective. And he has been helping get the offense sort of ticking and moving around, but he’s not had any end product yet. But if he is building towards end product, that fellow loves some World Cup action, as you wouldn’t remember it because he didn’t play in in 2018. But in 2014, he scored one of the, like, secret goals of the tournament, actually, announcing himself on the world stage. And he's had some bumps in his career since then, but now he's like the elder statesman who appears to sort of know what he's doing. And if he's getting back into shape, then yeah, the Paolo Rossi corollary comes back into play.
Lowe: So, the fact that of course you have a real soft spot for the Netherlands because that is where you fell in love with the game.
Hunt: Mm-hmm.
Lowe: And of course, you are wearing a multitude, listeners, may I tell you, of USA, Team USA, USMNT, The Guys, merchandise right now. So, give me the percentage of where you're going Saturday morning in your heart. If you imagine your heart and then divide it up between USA flag and Netherlands flag, how much is USA, how much Netherlands?
Hunt: A hundred percent USA. Not even close.
Lowe: OK. But what happens if the Netherlands win? Does that heart very quickly just get turned to a very bright shade of orange?
Hunt: No, no. It very slowly goes back to orange.
Lowe: Very slow change to orange. OK.
Hunt: And the only difference will be I will not then have the childish hatred for a conqueror that I generally do. You know how there's a school of thought where it's like, oh well the team that beats you in a tournament, you want them to win because then it means you got beaten by the best? I'm not that mature. I'm always like, fuck that. Death to you.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
How dare you? May you be humiliated going forward. May you never make another tournament again. Fuck you forever.
Lowe: Yeah. Kind of with you. [LAUGHS]
Hunt: But this time, I will have a more mature and nuanced view if that is to happen. But I mean, the odds are against us 'cause like, there aren't quite enough U.S. players right now who are having noteworthy enough performances to make me feel confident. Adams, yes. Pulisic, yes. Weah, not quite, frankly. Tim Ream, yes. Matt Turner, yes. But like today, you know =…
Lowe: Robinson, yes.
Hunt: Not today. For those of you who are “Kids in the Hall” fans, he was Mr. Heavyfoot today.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
There were so many times where like, he would get the ball and get open, and then the ball was suddenly out of bounds.
Lowe: Oh, wow.
Hunt: So then eventually, Shaq Moore comes on for his second substitute appearance, and he did not have a great first appearance. And Clint Dempsey says, after the game is over, I saw Shaq Moore raise his hand to say my bad more than I saw him complete a pass.
Lowe: [GROANS] Wow.
Hunt: And that is true. And that's gonna make the Joe Scally crowd go real crazy. So yeah, we don't have enough guys who are having really, really solid performances. You know, I would say Dest has been playing pretty well. You were gonna say?
Lowe: I was just gonna say that my concern is I've been in America nearly 10 years, and the number of times I have complained and kind of mocked American football saying, you know, it's like three hours long. It's like…
Hunt: If you’re lucky.
Lowe: You know, come on. No one's got three hours. I'm just thinking that knockout games, right? Plus, normal injury time, plus extra time if they go to extra time, plus injury time the first half of extra time, then the injury time on the second half, then penalties. And then, I'm sure they'll find some injury time from the [LAUGHS] penalty shootout to play more penalties. We could be looking at a three-hour game. It's gonna get ridiculous, but it's also gonna be amazing entertainment.
Hunt: But that's instructive. For folks at home, as you're scheduling your weekend around these matches, once we're in the knockout stages, you gotta put three hours aside, not the usual two. And that's for the parents as much as anything else. Gosh, what else have we got? Shout out to Ecuador who started out hot, and they beat Qatar, which in retrospect was not gonna be that difficult. They drew against Netherlands who won the group, and then just got beat by a Senegal team who are very, very good. Enner Valencia scored three goals, giving him six in his career, and that was actually six in a row for Ecuador in the World Cup going back to the, I believe, 2014 World Cup. And then finally, Moisés Caicedo scores to even things up, and eventually, even though they broke the Enner Valencia streak, it was not enough.
Lowe: What a finish by Koulibaly, by the way.
Hunt: Oh my God. And that was a fun… the weird little thing about it. And between Sarr and Caicedo and Koulibaly, all English football players.
Lowe: [CHUCKLES] Premier League.
Hunt: Sarr, former Premier League and probably Premier League soon to come because Watford, very good club.
Lowe: Without a doubt.
Hunt: But Caicedo, first ever Brighton player to score in a World Cup. And I only mention that because I know of your deep-seated love and respect for Brighton.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Well, when you sent that message earlier on in the text thread, I was like, I don't care.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
I don't care if it's the first. I mean, it probably is the first 'cause they’re rubbish, and they ain’t got any players at the World Cup anyway. So, hate Brighton.
Hunt: Crystal Palace, Brighton rivalry. One of the weirdest rivalries in all of football. We're not gonna get into it, but Google that shit 'cause it's fascinating.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Quickly, England-Senegal. Concerned? Yes, I am. Sadio Mané, thank goodness from an England perspective, is not there because of the injury. That would've been super scary. It's now just scary. But when you got a finish like Koulibaly today, anything can happen, and they're a force, Senegal. I am very nervous. This is by no means a done deal. I really think there's a very good chance England goes home.
Hunt: No, not at all.
Lowe: I really do. And that's scary. And this now, what happens now… We're sitting here Tuesday afternoon. and the game for England is on Sunday at 11 o'clock my time, Californian time. It's one of them… Every day is gonna just… The nerves will get more and more. It's just an unpleasant week ahead if you're an England fan, actually. 'Cause so much is expected. Like, you were saying about the USA, you just wanted to get out the group, and if you go out to Netherlands, they're the Netherlands with all the heritage and all of that. And yeah, but they may not be the team that they have been over the centuries or decades.
[HUNT CHUCKLES]
But they're still the Netherlands, you know. That name still holds. It's a bit like what we were talking about Germany yesterday. They're not the team of 10 years ago, but they're still Germany. The name has the gravitas.
Hunt: Yeah.
Lowe: So, if you go out to Netherlands, there's no shame. If England go out to Senegal… So, if you go out to Netherlands … It's not Iceland of Euro 2016, but it won't be far off that. Yes, they're the African champions, but they still don't garner the respect in England that they probably should have. We could go out, and it will be an English press field day, feeding frenzy. So, I think it's a real chance thar happens. Please, please, Gareth, play Phil Foden. But hey, don't worry, we've got about 25 pods until that day.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
So, I can send up my Foden prayers every day until then.
Hunt: But again, like the Sadio Mané thing, it's such a tragic injury, you know. He really, really would've just fit right into this World Cup and just really, really crushed it. And I would be much more nervous for England with him involved, but he is not there. And now, Senegal has this moment to really show, you know, is this gonna be their World Cup or not?
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Lowe: So, there we are. Those were our live, raw takes on USA and England, both going through. Plenty to get to throughout the rest of the week, but what's your final thoughts from today, sir?
Hunt: Just want to give my respects to the Iranian team. The things that they are dealing with off the pitch and their attempts to acknowledge it during the course this World Cup, most notably by not singing their national anthem during the first match, which apparently then only garnered them threats from the government to make sure that they sing the anthem for the second match. It's, I think, more to deal with than any of us can comprehend. And there is far less joy in knocking Iran out of this tournament than there might have been under normal circumstances. Bigger concerns than football. So, I tip my hat, and I give full respect to Team Melli.
Lowe: I would just say in response to that, I think that when they didn't sing the national anthem against England, I think that the emotional impact that had was there for all to see during the game. The 6-2 hammering was not really according to form. I can't imagine how they must have had to deal with that emotion while they were playing the game. And I think that you have to look at their World Cup campaign and the efforts that they've made, those players, and you have to say that they've arguably sacrificed, actually, themselves, their team going through in the name of protest because had they not done what they did against England, they probably wouldn't have been hammered 6-2. I just don't think they would've been. So, you sort of have to take your hat off to that sort of sacrifice.
Hunt: Agree 100%. You got any final thoughts, Rebecca?
Lowe: Well, I'm just sending lots of love to Christian Pulisic’s abdominals.
Hunt: Yeah, and again abdominal might be a family-friendly term for testicles.
Lowe: We send our love to them, too.
Hunt: Testicles are even more important because testicles hold the future Pulisics that we will need…
Lowe: [LAUGHS] You will…
Hunt: …to win World Cup 2052 in England.
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If you're loving the show or even if it just makes you feel slightly positive going forward in your day, either way, whatever feelings it evokes in you, subscribe on Apple Podcast, and be sure to rate and review us. That really helps other people find the show, and think of other people beside yourself for once.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] And for around the clock World Cup news plus live scores and standings, follow along on the Apple News app in My Sports where available. I'm the only one who actually reads a script. [LAUGHS] Brendan just tells you what he wants to tell you.
Hunt: Thank you, Rebecca, for giving me notes while we're on the air.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
We'll be back with more World Cup coverage Thursday. We'll give you tomorrow off, but we'll be right here in your podcast feed. See you then.
Lowe: Love it.
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