Brendan Hunt: As an Arsenal fan, I hear what you're saying, and I would say about Son something I would never say really about any other Spurs players. So, he's fine. He's fine.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Steve Nash: All right. You know, these are the types of things that we should decide before the podcast. We're just gonna keep politics outta this. Religion and politics is outta this podcast 'cause I wanna like you. I wanna continue to like you. I wanna pretend that we're friends. But I don't want Rebecca to be embarrassed.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
[MUSIC FADES IN]
[WHISTLE BLOWS]
Hunt: From Apple News and Meadowlark Media, I'm Brendan Hunt.
Rebecca Lowe: And I'm Rebecca Lowe. And this is "After the "Whistle."
Hunt: Reminder, there will be adult language. Folks, the knockout round bracket is finally set.
Lowe: Brendan is gonna have to deal with a few complex emotions as we look ahead to the match between United States and Netherlands for a place in the quarterfinals.
Hunt: And our football and basketball worlds collide again as Steve Nash joins us to give some predictions for the rest of the tournament.
Lowe: All the Steves on "After the Whistle." It's officially getting serious. Let's go.
Hunt: Let's go.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Hunt: Rebecca, hello again.
Lowe: Good afternoon, Brendan. Now, I just wanna start by a really interesting note that I've just come across just before we start recording the pod, right. So, so far now, going into the final 16 teams, only England, United States, Croatia, Morocco and the Netherlands are unbeaten. Now, that is not the five that you would've picked at the beginning of the World Cup to be unbeaten at this stage.
Hunt: Wow.
Lowe: I know I know. I mean, you probably would've picked England. No, I'm kidding. That's an interesting five. And that is a reflection, I think, of what a topsy-turvy, bizarre, entertaining, unpredictable, weird World Cup this is.
Hunt: And here we are on the precipice of where it all kicks up a notch.
Lowe: God loves a precipice.
Hunt: The opening act has finished their final number. The lights dim in the auditorium, the clapping of the entire stadium comes together in unison and synchronicity as we await the marquee acts of the knockout rounds.
Lowe: [LAUGHS] Oh my God. It's getting weirder as we go along.
[LAUGHTER]
Hunt: All right. Well, let's get serious, shall we? Rebecca, if you can please restore just a modicum of journalistic comportment for this eventful day. Today, we wrapped up the final two groups, Group G and Group H. Brazil was already through, Portugal already through, but there were six teams left trying to get those last two spots of the knockout rounds. Our first group of the day was Group H, oddly enough. Non-alphabetical. Outside of the box thinking on the part of FIFA. We had in that first run, then, South Korea-Portugal and Ghana-Uruguay. As we said yesterday, Ghana-Uruguay, bit of a grudge match.
Lowe: It was. Well, Uruguay won, but they both went out in the end. So, it was actually South Korea doing Ghana's revenge for them because it was South Korea beating Portugal in the other game, which ended up sending home Uruguay even though Uruguay beat Ghana by two goals. So, now, Ghana's boss has since resigned. The manager of Ghana has gone. And then the joy, and I know you… We've had this conversation about Luis Suárez and the reason why it was a grudge match because the history he has with Ghana way back in 2010 when, as you say, he cheated. I say he played the game. The pictures of him afterwards crying when he found out [LAUGHS] that South Korea had scored, and that Uruguay were going home… So much joy has been taken from those pictures. That kind of leaves a bit of a not a great taste in my mouth. I know what happened 12 years ago, but he's still a super player, and I don't know if we should be taking joy out of Luis Suárez's tears.
Hunt: Well, I just love that you used the phrase… What'd you say? "The taste of joy"?
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: Because for Luis Suárez, part of why we feel so much joy is because of his joy for the taste of human flesh.
Lowe: I know! [LAUGHS]
Hunt: There are so many, so many misdemeanors from Mr. Suárez. And he's had many successes. He's got many trophies. He's probably got a helicopter or two. I think it's OK to this one time. And if it wasn't Ghana, I wouldn't enjoy it as much, I gotta say. But the fact that it involved Ghana, like, there's balance in the universe again.
Lowe: Yeah. OK. You need to message Ghana. They need to learn how to take penalties. I mean, whether it's 12 years ago or today, I mean, come on, guys. André Ayew's penalty was shocking. And then he got taken off, didn't he, at half-time? Which is just horrible. Imagine taking a penalty at the World Cup, missing it, and then getting hauled off at halftime. The whole thing was just… [GROANS] But they went home, and so did Uruguay. And then the great scenes, South Korea against Portugal. Portugal already gone through, and South Korea come back and win by two goals to one. Incredible scenes. They're such a good team, actually. I think you said at the beginning of the tournament you were looking forward to watching them. And Heung-min Son at the end, just in tears. Throw his mask to the ground and burst into tears, like proper crying. Like, he wasn't having a little… a tear here and there like Luis Suárez. This was like, full on bawling. It was amazing.
Hunt: I joke about, you know, disliking any Spurs player, and I was very, very happy for South Korea today. Then over in Group G, we had Cameroon-Brazil, Serbia-Switzerland. Cameroon-Brazil was the one that you were watching, a slightly less eventful match.
Lowe: Yeah. Well, it was… So, Brazil made a lot of changes. They kind of did a France in that respect. Jesus started, Martinelli started, which was good. And they had 21 shots, eight on target, 11 corners. But they lost by a goal to nil right near the end, at the point at which the only way I think Cameroon could've qualified at this point at nil-nil was if they won two-nil. Right? Aboubakar, who scored that goal the other day that everyone thought was offside and then actually wasn't offside… Lovely little lob of the keeper. Aboubakar scores this goal and then takes his shirt off, which means he gets a red card because he was already on a yellow. Scored the goal in stoppage time, took off his shirt. So, he scored the goal and got a red card. Immediately, off he went. They were down to 10 men. But the problem was, he didn't realize that they still needed one more goal. And who's the best person to score that? Probably him, considering he scored their last couple of goals. So, that was like, no, don't do that! But side note, right…
Hunt: Wow.
Lowe: FIFA, World Football, Premier League, all of the above. Can we stop booking players for taking off their shirt? Taking your shirts off in celebration does not warrant a yellow card. Unsporting behavior. I looked it up in the rules. Really? No one cares. Why are you sending off a player at the World Cup who's in the middle of celebrating a goal? That's ridiculous.
Hunt: Yeah, that's insanity. You know, we've gotten so used to it that I sort of forgot how stupid it is.
Lowe: It is. It is utter stupidity. OK. Switzerland-Serbia was the one that you were watching.
Hunt: So, Switzerland-Serbia, for reasons we explained yesterday, bit of a grudge match going in. And boy, did it play out like one. Ooh. Chippy throughout. You know, like, at one point, Serbia's bench was on the pitch getting into Swiss faces. They were, you know, constantly getting into each other. Serbia, desperate to try to get Xhaka to fall into the kind of red card that he absolutely would have two years ago or longer before Arteta apparently taught him how to meditate or something. Anywho, Switzerland gets up 1-nothing. And then Serbia is up 2-1. Just before halftime, Switzerland equalizes. And then after halftime, Switzerland goes up 3-2. And then surely after that, Serbia, needing now two goals… The Serbian coach takes off Vlahović, who is [LAUGHS] the striker at Juventus and the scorer of the second goal. Now, he brings on a striker for him. He brings on Jović. But like, why not, in these foxhole moments, just go nuts and get three strikers out there? There's no other time than this to do that. Suffice to say, they did not score again. And Serbia are out. Switzerland goes through.
Lowe: I saw Mitrović score the goal for 1-1, and what a goal that was, by the way. And, you know, he made that run across the defender at the near post, and he headed it home. Classic Mitrović. That's a shame for me. They were my dark horses, and they haven't really lived up to my dark horse tag, have they? But Mitrović has done as well as I thought he would at this World Cup. So much so that he will have to move from Fulham. It won't happen probably in January, but you know, I don't know. I think he's better than Fulham. Mitrović, he's… I'd take him on my team tomorrow.
Hunt: He's awfully good. He's awfully good. But boy, does he hate certain Swiss players. Woo-hoo. Woo. Boy, it was chippy.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Hunt: Ladies and gentlemen, very excited for our next guest. For the second day in a row, we have basketball royalty, eight-time NBA All-Star, seven-time All-NBA selection, and two-time NBA MVP. Also, a huge footy fan, co-owner of Real Mallorca, who I believe I've seen play, and the Vancouver Whitecaps. We're excited to welcome to the show, Steve Nash, ladies and gentlemen.
Lowe: Hi, Steve.
Nash: Hi, guys. Thanks for having me. This is great.
Lowe: Thanks for coming on.
Nash: Of course. Can I say before, like, Rebecca, how great you are at what you do, how much I love tuning in every week to watch you. And yes, you're very special, and I'm a big fan, so…
Lowe: Wow. Thank you so much. I…
Nash: Of course. Of course.
Lowe: Wow. Hugely appreciate that. Right. I'm gonna take a minute just to like [EXHALES SHARPLY] get over that.
Hunt: For those who don't have their cameras on who listen to podcast. Rebecca literally just swooned.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Hunt: Like, she put her hands together. She put her head at an angle. She cocked her wrists so that she could rest her head in the back of one of her palms.
Nash: She's also a great actress I just figured out.
[LAUGHTER]
Hunt: Theater training. Theater training.
Nash: For sure. And let me also jump in. This is something that makes me really proud. Ted Lasso and Coach Beard came to my charity soccer game in New York before Ted Lasso was a global sensation. So, thank you very much for that. It kind of gives me like, a feeling of pride.
Hunt: Well, that was one of the great pleasures of the "Ted Lasso" experience. Go ahead and take a second here then to talk about what the Showdown is and The Steve Nash Foundation, and I'll tell you my take on that day, which was great fun.
Nash: Yeah. I mean, my foundation, Steve Nash Foundation, has been around for 18 years. We're all about youth and children, and we've done tons of things from physical literacy to edu-care, early education, child abuse prevention platforms, tons of things over the course of our existence. But the Showdown is our charity soccer game that we've had 13 in a row until COVID. And so, we're hoping to be back possibly this June. It's had some of the best football players in the world and some of the best basketball players in the world playing in a small kind of eight-a-side pitch in lower Manhattan. And it's just been in an incredible event, really grassroots and low key, but in a really heartfelt way. So, anytime people like yourself come out, it makes a… It adds a whole 'nother… You elevate us. We work hard to affect the lives of children, and you elevate us. So, thank you.
Hunt: Thank you. It was such a fun day.
Nash: That was fun. That was fun.
Lowe: So, Steve, let's talk, shall we, about the World Cup.
Nash: Yes.
Lowe: So far, your thoughts? Give us your kind of overriding headlines of what you've been witnessing in this last couple of weeks.
Nash: Madness. It's been unbelievable. I mean, just… You know, these deciding days for the groups have just been… I don't know. Historic, epic, all of the above. The excitement coming right down to the wire. I mean, is the ball over the line? Is it not? How many yellow cards does Mexico have? Like, you know, every day there's some kind of new rule and a line nine of the group stage manual that I'm learning. So, just been incredibly explosive. I think we needed this, you know. I think all the kind of… We know all the negative stuff around this World Cup, so to have the players show up and put on such an exciting product on the field has just been something that's made me extremely happy and excited. And, you know, I think the tournament's only just begun, so it's gonna be really fun to see us get into these knockout stages soon.
Hunt: Well, we know that you are a Tottenham Hotspur fan, which is fine 'cause no one's perfect. But hopefully, you enjoyed how things finished up for Son today.
Nash: Mm, yeah. I mean, he made an incredible pass for the decider there. This should be a silly question, but who doesn't love Sonny? I mean, he just… An unbelievable person. I've gotten the chance to meet him a number of times. And I mean, he's the most… I don't know. Even respectful, kind, sunny person you'd ever want to meet. And the talent is just unbelievable. The way he plays the game, the way he just wants to attack, wants the ball, always going for it. It just seems like an unbelievable teammate and person. So, you can tell how disciplined he has with his craft, how much work he puts into it. Left foot, right foot. How much he's willing to give up his body and play for the team. So proud of him, but as a Spurs supporter, we're just so lucky to get to watch him play every weekend.
Lowe: Steve, I agree. He is such a lovely bloke. I've been trying to convince Brendan of this since the beginning of his podcast. He's struggling with it. I know. 'Cause he's an Arsenal fan. But he is. No, you're absolutely right. He comes across exactly as you just described it. Brendan, do you have a question?
Hunt: Just that as an Arsenal fan, I hear what you're saying, and I would say about Son something I would never say really about any other Spurs players. So, he's fine. He's fine.
[LOWE LAUGHS]
Nash: All right. You know, these are the types of things that we should decide before the podcast that we're just not gonna talk left and right. We're not gonna talk blue and red. We're not gonna talk Republican, Democrat. We're just gonna keep politics out of this. Religion and politics is out of this podcast 'cause I wanna like you. I wanna continue to like you. I wanna pretend that we're friends. I don't want this to go off a cliff here, and I don't want Rebecca to be embarrassed, so…
Hunt: No. Let's go back to like, Thanksgiving protocols here. No more politics. No more politics. No.
Nash: There you go. There you go.
Hunt: I enjoy watching Son, especially for Korea.
Lowe: Well, I was just gonna start moving towards USA and the game Saturday morning and your thoughts on them so far. And also, your thoughts… I know you're really good friends with Claudio Reyna, and your thoughts on sort of the lack of Gio at this World Cup, which is such a shame. What are your thoughts on that, Steve?
Nash: Well, I do have known Gio since he was a little boy, and, you know, a big fan and incredible talent. You know, I don't know what the scenarios are. And I think as someone who's coached myself, you never know what goes on behind the scenes. You never know how fit people are. You never know what state of mind, frame of mind they're in. You never know the state of the team. You don't know anything, really. So, it's really, I think, foolhardy, 'cause we don't know what's going on over there. He's a tremendous player. He's tremendous talent. He's got a great future ahead of him. I think my wish for Gio would be that he takes this in some capacity and builds on it and uses it, and this makes him tougher, stronger, and better when his opportunity does arise, which may be tomorrow. And if it's not, sometime down the road, what can this afford him? What can he take with from this experience rather than this is just negative. Doesn't make sense. I don't like it. Opinions flying all over the place. No, for the player, that's the most important thing. Let's get Gio to the next level 'cause he has the will, the heart, the talent, all the things it takes to continue to play on the biggest stage for the next 10 years. So, he's gonna have an unbelievable career, and it might turn quickly tomorrow when he pops up and makes a difference. But if he doesn't, what is the opportunity here for him, and how can he grow from it?
Lowe: Love it.
Hunt: With Canada out, does the United States become the team you're rooting for the most? Or is there another entry?
Nash: This has been the strangest World Cup for me 'cause my dad's from Tottenham. All my family on my dad's side are Tottenham supporters. My mom's from Swansea, Wales, but moved to Tottenham when she was 10, 11, 12. So, I've always supported England 'cause Canada's never been in the thing. I've never really supported Wales because Wales has never been in the thing for 50-something years. So, of course, my kids are American. I've lived in the States since I was 18 years old. So, we've got America, Wales, and England in the same group, and then we got Canada over there. So, it was the most eventful World Cup for me in many ways. I've always rooted for England, so that's never gonna change. But I also have a real soft spot and yearning for the U.S. to do well. And I know… I've gotten to know… I've met a bunch of the players. I've met Gregg, and you know, you wanna see the game continue to grow here. And I think we're seeing such a nice group of players, talented players, that wanna work together, that are building a team, have, you know, the right values that are… You can see the energy, the passion, the will, all those things. You know, you don't see a bunch of guys that are pulling apart at the seams. You see a bunch of guys that really wanna take this to the next level. And so, that is a gift. That is a gift for all soccer fans in America. That's a gift for us who want the game to continue to grow. And so, to root for this team, I think, is easy. And, you know, they've played exceptionally well. You know, it's still a young team. It's still a team that's forming, but you look around at some of the pieces that they can build on here, especially the midfield and attacking players that are just in a numbers that I don't think we've seen and are gonna be around for a while. So, that's very exciting.
Hunt: Set the scene for USA-England in your house, then. What was that like?
Nash: You know, I guess I was… We were back in California for Thanksgiving. A bunch of nationals from the U.K. were actually over. But watching it with a bunch of Americans, England, you know, had already gotten three points, so there wasn't as much riding on it. I just kinda get a little frustrated 'cause I just felt like they were rubbing their hands on a draw. This is great. Let's get a nice draw. Go back to our hotel and pump our fists. And it's just like, I think that comes back to haunt England when you get to the stage. They haven't gone to unleash all this attacking talent, be on the front foot, put people under pressure and use. I mean, I don't wanna get too technical, but I… Gareth Southgate knows way more about football than I do, but why not a 4-2-3-1 to get four attacking players on the field instead of a 4-3-3. And you kind of… I mean, it just felt like he would've loved Harry Maguire to stand in the ball 60 yards from goal for about 45 minutes if he could've…
Lowe: Thank you!
Nash: But I get it. It's tournament football. I know nothing. That's just the fan in me.
Lowe: No! You… No! No, no, no, no. Don't say that after you've said all that stuff that I totally have just been saying all week. You're right. You just want them to be unleashed, don't you, Steve?
Nash: Yeah. Yeah, you would. I mean, you just love to see kind of… You know, you're already playing Bellingham and Rice. You know, you got the four defenders behind them. Now let's go and keep the ball in attack and put people under pressure. That does the defending for you half the game. If Foden's running at someone, or Sterling on the other side, or Kane's occupying or dropping deep or whatever it is. It's just unfortunate, you know, that they don't have that ethos in their team. And I wish they, especially on those games like that one where it really wouldn't have sunk them if they had a loss… Go for it. Maybe you win 3-nil, and you think, all right, we're onto something. We're turning a corner. But I guess, ultimately, that's just not the way they're set up. That wasn't the way they were set up in the Euros. That's not the way they've been set up this tournament. So, I shouldn't think it's gonna change all of a sudden.
Hunt: And again, for those of you at home who are denied the pleasure of watching Rebecca during this conversation, when Steve said England should have played in a 4-2-3-1, her fists launched into the air as if England had just scored. It's a beautiful thing to watch.
Lowe: Because [LAUGHS] Steve is right. The sad thing is they're not set up, but the actual players, often for their clubs, Steve, are set up that way. And it's just… When you make that step up to international football, you should be able to play better or as well as you do for your team in the same way to get the best out of them. And it's just… I'm so fearful that this is gonna be another waste. I'm so fearful. And it doesn't need to be because we have the talent. We have the way to express ourselves. But anyway, anyway, anyway, like I said, don't get me started on that.
Nash: Put the England top 13, 14 players up against City and Liverpool. There's a case to be made, and so, it's a little bit frustrating. I feel that pain in my gut as well, Rebecca.
Lowe: Thank You. Thank you, Steve. I feel better.
Hunt: Well, Steve has very kindly offered to stick around here. You all now know that the bracket for the knockout rounds is now known, is now etched in stone. So, let's go through. We're gonna let you know who we think are gonna win. Everybody ready?
Lowe: Yup.
Nash: Ready.
Hunt: OK. We'll go bracket-by-bracket here. You got Holland-U.S. Rebecca?
Lowe: U.S.
Hunt: Steve?
Nash: U.S.
Hunt: Agreed, U.S. Argentina-Australia. Rebecca?
Lowe: Argentina.
Hunt: Steve?
Nash: Argentina.
Hunt: Argentina. OK. Argentina-U.S. Does anyone not think Argentina?
Lowe: I think Argentina. I'm sorry.
Nash: Yeah, I think Argentina. I mean, I almost wanted to say the Netherlands to kind of reverse jinx them, but [LAUGHS] I can't even do that against Argentina. I just think there's just… There's just too many players that are a handful, and yeah, that's a totally different animal.
Hunt: OK. Top quadrant of the bracket, we are in complete agreement. Argentina over the U.S. By the way, complete agreement, it really doesn't work for sports radio, guys. We're never gonna get in a dispute this way, so let's get it together. All right. Second quadrant, you got Japan-Croatia and Brazil-South Korea. Japan-Croatia. Steve?
Nash: I never wanna bet against Croatia. They just have so much experience. At the same time, I mean, Japan has played with such heart. They've had the ball for like, five minutes the whole tournament, and they find a way to win. And they have the legs. You know, I worry… What do you want? Do you want a team that's got the legs, or do you want a team that's got the experience? And so, I'm a 50-50. I am gonna say Croatia.
Hunt: Rebecca?
Lowe: In that first pod, I think I said that my breakout star of the tournament would be Mitoma. Still waiting for it, so I'm still backing myself. I'm going Mitoma to star, Japan to go through, which would be amazing.
Hunt: Yeah. I think the logic you've described, Steve, is spot on. I just tilted slightly toward Japan partially because of the young legs, but also like, home confederation sometimes can get a little extra juice there. So, all right, we got two Japans and a Croatia. Brazil-South Korea. I'll go first 'cause everything I just said about Japan, I do not believe for South Korea against Brazil. They will fight bravely. I'm quite sure. But I'm going Brazil. Y'all?
Nash: Brazil.
Lowe: Brazil.
Hunt: Brazil. And Brazil against Japan or Croatia?
Nash: Brazil.
Lowe: Brazil.
Hunt: Yeah, right? We're talking about Brazil. OK. All right. Brazil. All right. So, we are again in agreement. Oh, boy. Oh, those ad dollars are plunging.
Lowe: Brendan, would that make it an Argentina-Brazil semi? No, they're on the other side, right?
Hunt: It would indeed.
Lowe: It would? Wow. OK.
Hunt: It would indeed. We will come back to that. All right. We go to the bottom half. England-Senegal, France-Poland. Rebecca, England-Senegal, who you got?
Lowe: England.
Hunt: OK. All right. Steve?
Nash: England.
Hunt: I think England, too. But in a close one. France-Poland?
Lowe: France.
Nash: France.
Hunt: France. Yeah. The Poland train ends here. England and France? Oof.
Lowe: That's where the England train's ending. Right there. Yeah, France.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Nash: Yeah. France.
Hunt: Yeah. Sorry, England. But yeah, we got France there. Again, complete agreement. I mean, I love us. You know, we zig when the rest of sports media zags. Morocco-Spain and Portugal-Switzerland. Rebecca?
Lowe: Spain and Portugal.
Nash: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, Spain and Portugal. I want to pick someone else here. If I was, it would be the Swiss, but Spain and Portugal.
Hunt: I'm gonna go Morocco, Portugal…
Nash: Mm.
Lowe: Wow.
Hunt: …just because I think Spain are on a downward spiral. They might not have the nouse to get themselves out of because there's so many youngsters there. So, then I have Portugal over Morocco, but it doesn't matter because France beats them both. Do you both have Spain over Portugal?
Lowe: Yeah. Spain. Then France versus Spain. What you gonna go for, Steve?
Nash: I think France.
Lowe: Yeah, me, too.
Nash: Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. They're missing some of their top players, and still just don't see how you keep them out the back of the net.
Hunt: All right. Then, we have France in the final versus Argentina or Brazil. Go.
Lowe: Brazil.
Nash: Brazil.
Hunt: Argentina.
Lowe: Wow.
Hunt: And I'm saying Argentina wins it. Y’all?
Lowe: I say Brazil wins it. Steve?
Nash: I think… [EXHALES DEEPLY] Yeah, I think Brazil.
Lowe: Yeah.
Hunt: M'kay. We'll see. Well, I at least hope that we are offered the pleasure of an Argentina-Brazil semifinal.
Nash: Yeah, that would be amazing. I mean, there's gonna be some tasty matchups in a week or so here no matter what. So, even sooner. So, this is gonna be really exciting. If they get to play, that would be fantastic.
Hunt: M'kay. Well, you heard it here, folks. We got two Brazils and an Argentina, thus guaranteeing that France will win. You have been Steve Nash, and we have been very, very lucky to have you. Thank you so much for being here, Steve.
Lowe: Appreciate it, Steve.
Nash: That was awesome. Thanks for having me. You're welcome, Rebecca. Bye Brendan.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
Hunt: See you, bud.
Lowe: Take care. See you soon.
Nash: See ya.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Hunt: Well, that was great.
[LOWE SIGHS]
Hunt: That was great.
Lowe: I love him. I'm gonna do a splinter podcast where Steve and I just talk Gareth. "Steve and Becks on Gareth."
Hunt: All right. Well, I'm also doing a splinter podcast where we just have famous basketball Steves. We'll go through the whole hall of basketball Steves. We'll have Steve Smith, Stephen Jackson, who's surely on the Hall of Basketball Steves ballot.
Lowe: Yeah. I know so many as well. Steve Johns is really good.
Hunt: Steve Johns? Good old Steve Johns.
Lowe: OK. So, the nerves are jangling. I can see actual nerve jangling going on on the face of Brendan Hunt. Ahead of the game. Seven o'clock PT, Pacific Time, 10 Eastern. If you don't know, USA taking on the Netherlands tomorrow morning, Saturday morning, for a place in the quarterfinals of the World Cup. It's not even my team, and I just feel a bit sick saying that. That's how big these games now are. Pure knockout. Here we go. Could go to extra time. Could go to penalties. Apparently, Brendan, there's a flu outbreak inside the Netherlands, Camp Netherlands. Of course, you have a soft spot for, but we'll just put that to one side because you told me you're 100% stars and stripes ahead of this one. Frenkie de Jong apparently has flu. There could be a few changes in this Holland team and this Netherlands team because of the flu outbreak. I mean, you'll take what you can get, right?
Hunt: Oh, that's for sure. I'm trying to remember the Dutch word for flu. Griep. Griep. Yeah.
Lowe: That doesn't sound nice, does it?
Hunt: [SPEAKING IN DUTCH]
Hunt: You know, like, the grip with two Ps and a knee, as you would find in the occasional Shakespearean reference. I mean, I don't mind that Holland has the flu. You know, you gotta play the games as they come. But, of course, as we know well in American sports culture, sometimes the flu leads to a flu game. And what if we have 11 guys who have a Michael Jordan flu game altogether at once? That would be, of course, a bummer. But I don't think it's gonna happen. Now, putting the flu aside, because who knows if they'll still be feeling it tomorrow. I mean, I'm sure they have Pedialyte in Qatar. I'm really torn here a lot because on the one hand, you think if you're playing the Netherlands of old, this will be an open game. This will be an attacking, free-flowing, possible spectacle. But Louis van Gaal, as we've discussed before, has made a more conservative Holland than we've seen in a very long time. Now, in Holland, there's great cultural pressure to have an attacking team that plays beautifully. And there's even a specific formation to it. You're always supposed to play a 4-3-3, which van Gaal did in 2014 when he got them to third place. But this time he has openly said, [SPEAKING WITH A DUTCH ACCENT] "No, I'm doing three center backs. That is how I'm going to do it from now on. And we're gonna play a little more conservatively because I am in my 70s. I was fighting cancer this year. Who do I have to please? None of you! I'm Louis fucking van Gaal."
Lowe: But also, I sound a little bit like José Mourinho. [LAUGHS] [IMITATING JOSÉ MOURINHO] Three for me.
Hunt: [CHUCKLES] So, to play a conservative Holland is a trickier thing. What does that exactly mean? And I do think they didn't really break a sweat in the group stage. Sure, they didn't get nine points, but no one else did either. And I just don't quite know what to think. My main question is will even a conservative version of Holland, will that still be open enough that you'll want to have a player particularly well suited to a more open game than we faced against Wales or Iran? Meaning, is this the time? Will we finally see Giovanni Reyna get the start?
Lowe: Well, that was what I was gonna ask you. Not just the Reyna question, but really, Gregg Berhalter has got to look at the opposition. Yes, it is horses for courses in some way now we're at this stage in the World Cup, but he's also got to look at the fact that you guys, The Guys, have had a good World Cup. So, what will his approach be? What do you think? Now that you've known him, you've known his style. You've seen his approach to a number of big games in the past. What do you think he'll do?
Hunt: I mean, none of those big games have been against this big an opponent, with all apologies to England, even. And playing England in the group stage would be different than playing England or Holland in the knockout runs. I think he's gonna try to play a possession game the best he can. But I just don't know if we have the horses for that particular course, you know, against the horses we will face. But at the same time, there is so much belief in this team. Like, this team really is playing like they're greater than the sum of their parts. And I know they're not scoring enough. They've only had two goals, and they're below their expected goals. Yada, yada, yada. But they also only allowed one goal. No one allowed zero, you know. Even Brazil allowed one. So, they're not getting enough credit for their defensive play, for their cohesion. There was a great piece in "The Athletic" yesterday by John Muller, or John Mule-er, or John Mull-er. Hopefully it's one of those three. Apologies, John. If there's a fourth option, that's on you. But anyway, a great piece about the way the U.S. is set up to attack actually dovetails right into how quickly they can be ready to defend. I highly recommend that for those who love diagrams. If you love diagrams, this is the piece for you.
Lowe: And what about the man who's leading it all? Gregg Berhalter. You're a fan, I know. What do you think about how he's gonna be perceived no matter what happens tomorrow?
Hunt: I mean, it's the great burdens of being a national team coach, especially when you're the coach of a team that gives a shit. And, you know, maybe 12 years ago, this country didn't quite give enough of a shit, but now they do. And what that brings out is the trolls and the haters. And since the day he was hired, he's had to deal with "Berhalter out." Folks, first he won the Nations League, and people said that was a silly tournament that mattered not. Then he won the Gold Cup, which people said, eh, we sent our B side. What does it matter, these two trophies of his? What he really has to do is get us back into the World Cup. Then he gets us back into the World Cup and still, the Berhalter out-crowd, like, well, let's see if he gets us into the second round. Now, we're in the round of 16 and still, the apologies have not come flooding out. Now people are like, well, we didn't get enough goals compared to our expected goals. Yada, yada, yada. People, appreciate the man we have. He has done everything we have asked of him to do. Hopefully he can go even one step further tomorrow. And I think he is well vindicated. Whether or not this means he gets 2026, that's a conversation for another day. But I do think, you know, the "Berhalter out" crowd have underestimated him in general and have also underestimated the very concept of, for the first time in our history, a former World Cup player for us is now coaching for us in the World Cup. He knows our guys. He knows what they need. He knows what they need to get through this time more than anyone else we've ever had. Yes, Jürgen Klinsmann played in World Cups, obviously, but he, quite famously, didn't necessarily understand the American players so much. I think Berhalter, no matter what happens tomorrow, has done a fantastic job. And he is owed tremendous thanks from U.S. supporters, a thanks that he probably knows quite well may never come.
Lowe: OK, my final question on this is Pulisic. He has stepped up so far. He is fit after his nether regions’ situation. Is he, do you think, capable of being the star in tomorrow's show?
Hunt: Yes. Hundred percent.
Lowe: Do you think he will?
Hunt: I do. And even if we don't see Reyna, that wide open game, compared to Iran or Wales, will suit him to the ground. So, as long as these two coaches don't get too cagey, this could be a high scoring game. My overarching feeling is no matter what, it's going to PKs, and if it goes to PKs, then it's Turner versus Noppert. [CHUCKLES] Let's talk about these goalkeepers for a second. So, I think they're both 28. Noppert had never played for Holland before this tournament, and van Gaal just throws him in. [LAUGHS] He has been injured basically his whole career. There's a great profile of Noppert in the "Guardian" a few days ago from Jamie Jackson. This dude's career is fascinating, OK? So, first of all, he was in Heerenveen for a year. No appearances. Then he goes to Breda, where Earnie Stewart once played, for four years, six appearances. Foggia, eight appearances for a year. Dordrecht for a year, two appearances. Now, finally, in the last two years, he's had 15 appearances at Go Ahead Eagles. He's had 14 appearances at Heerenveen. And now, this guy, at 6'8", the tallest player of the tournament, is suddenly starting for the Netherlands in the World Cup. Matt Turner, famously, didn't get into soccer until he turned 16. Now, they're both going up against each other and because they are such relatively inexperienced keepers for their age, as far as we can tell, Noppert has never been in a penalty shootout in his career. And Matt's been in two, and he's won one of them. So, if it gets down to a penalty shootout, which again is my great fear and kind of what I think is gonna go, it's a huge X factor on both sides.
Lowe: I love it. I love that goalkeeper versus goalkeeper story. I don't think it'll go to penalties. I think you will win it in extra time. I am very positive for you. I do think this has been the most serious last five minutes that we have done in the entire season of this podcast, by the way. And that is the nature of this stage of the World Cup, though.
Hunt: [CHUCKLES] Knockout round, baby.
Lowe: By the way, guys, anyone who wants comedy from now on, ain't gonna happen because it's now getting blooming serious. Well, can I just finish today's episode by wishing you the best of luck because I have one more day of pain to come before my chaps go on Sunday. So, I will be rooting for you. We are all getting up. Teddy said to me this morning, you will wake me up, mummy, won't you? You will wake me up. He is desperate for USA, his second team, to do well, as we all are. Come on, The Guys. We are all behind you.
Hunt: Come on, The Guys. Programming note, folks, tomorrow, we're gonna come to you as soon as we can after the USA-Netherlands game. So, our pod will not include any information on Australia versus Argentina. And for the record, we all expect Argentina to win that match. If Australia upsets them and they win and we have not talked about it, then I promise to do all of Sunday's show in a dodgy Australian accent.
[MUSIC FADES IN]
Lowe: [LAUGHS] OK, love it. Gonna hold you to that.
Hunt: If you're loving the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts and be sure to rate and review us. It really helps other people find the show.
Lowe: And for 'round the clock World Cup news plus scores and standings, follow along on the Apple News app in My Sports where available. And if you're in the U.S., check out the news app on Saturday for some very special live coverage of the United States-Netherlands in the round of 16.
Hunt: We'll be back with more World Cup coverage right here in your podcast feed tomorrow after USA-Netherlands.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
Lowe: My dad was so upset that I said bloody in last night's episode.
[HUNT LAUGHS]
Lowe: He sent me a text saying, "Great listen again. Still, I know I'm an old sod, but still, just struggling with the swearing." I'm like, I said "bloody" once. And he's like, still, still, still struggling. Jesus. Should be Brendan's dad.
[LAUGHTER]